Health care changes MUST come this year

[msmith198025]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D98FI7I00&show_article=1


President Barack Obama warned Thursday that if Congress doesn't deliver health care legislation by the end of the year, the opportunity will be lost, a plea to political supporters to pressure lawmakers to act. "If we don't get it done this year, we're not going to get it done," Obama told supporters by phone as he flew home on Air Force One from a West Coast fundraising trip.

[HD MM]

Get er done Obama!

Seriously, this is great news, especially for all small business owners.

[msmith198025]

Get er done Obama!

Seriously, this is great news, especially for all small business owners.

How so?

[Skyhi]

My wife is a very well-paid RN...I wonder if this could be the beginning of the end of her $$$ gravy-train.

[HD MM]

How so?

Well, if health care is offered free, like a public education, then that would be a costly additional expense the owner can save since he/she will no longer have to pay into it.

[msmith198025]

Well, if health care is offered free, like a public education, then that would be a costly additional expense the owner can save since he/she will no longer have to pay into it.

But the system still has to be paid for. Taxes WILL go up, so for those that do not offer a company funded health insurance program (and that is alot of them), it will actually cost more

[msmith198025]

My wife is a very well-paid RN...I wonder if this could be the beginning of the end of her $$$ gravy-train.

Doctors as well.

[HD MM]

But the system still has to be paid for. Taxes WILL go up, so for those that do not offer a company funded health insurance program (and that is alot of them), it will actually cost more

I hate paying more taxes like everyone else. So, I guess my only qualification for me to favor medical heath care for all would be for the government to find a reasonable way to offer it without raising taxes to make it NOT worth it. For instance, if other areas that we pay into are cut or ran more efficiently, we could save and put into heath care instead, which I think is important.

[fallout2600]

For instance, if other areas that we pay into are cut or ran more efficiently, we could save and put into heath care instead, which I think is important.

Wake me up when that happens...

[Skyhi]

Wake me up when that happens...

Ceasing to be an imperialistic conqueror would be a good start...

[msmith198025]

I hate paying more taxes like everyone else. So, I guess my only qualification for me to favor medical heath care for all would be for the government to find a reasonable way to offer it without raising taxes to make it NOT worth it. For instance, if other areas that we pay into are cut or ran more efficiently, we could save and put into heath care instead, which I think is important.

My problems with this are that I do not think that we will get the quality of health care that is available now (with a price of course) and that I do not think we could possibly find the funds to offer such a system even with cutbacks in other areas (which is very very unlikely), unless taxes go up.

It is a nice thought, but hardly feasible with the economic situation that we have.

[fallout2600]

Ceasing to be an imperialistic conqueror would be a good start...

That's a valid point, often times put on the table by Ron Paul.....bring the troops home and all these domestic issues could be paid for...

[msmith198025]

Ceasing to be an imperialistic conqueror would be a good start...

A drop in the bucket compared to what this would likely cost year in and year out.

[Skyhi]

Are private health insurers profitable?

[msmith198025]

That's a valid point, often times put on the table by Ron Paul.....bring the troops home and all these domestic issues could be paid for...

This year maybe (and even then I have my doubts). What about next year, or the next. Say it goes well and we do need those troops overseas, could we afford to do so without adding to the massive debt that we already have?

[msmith198025]

Are private health insurers profitable?

I would imagine. They are in business to make money

[Skyhi]

I would imagine. They are in business to make money

......
.....
I lost my train of thought....I'm having a Bush moment. :)

[msmith198025]

......
.....
I lost my train of thought....I'm having a Bush moment. :)

lol, it happens to the best of us

[fallout2600]

This year maybe (and even then I have my doubts). What about next year, or the next. Say it goes well and we do need those troops overseas, could we afford to do so without adding to the massive debt that we already have?

In 2008, we spent $711 BILLION on military and war:

http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending#InContextUSMilitarySpendingVersusRestofth eWorld

[msmith198025]

In 2008, we spent $711 BILLION on military and war:

http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending#InContextUSMilitarySpendingVersusRestofth eWorld

And we were/are in the middle of two wars.
The cost of this health plan is estimated in the trillions if I am not mistaken

[Skyhi]

And we were/are in the middle of two wars.
The cost of this health plan is estimated in the trillions if I am not mistaken

Well thats absolutely absurd. Where is all this healthcare money going?!?!?! That's along the lines of what I was thinking before. Some entity is getting filthy rich with the current system, and if we want to nationalize then that entity is going to have to accept far less money.

[fallout2600]

And we were/are in the middle of two wars.
The cost of this health plan is estimated in the trillions if I am not mistaken

Without the war, its still over 500 Billion:

[fallout2600]

here is another interesting chart:

[Skyhi]

Who are you? Ross Perot? :)

[Skyhi]

here is another interesting chart:

261 billion in interest on federal debt. CRAZY.

[msmith198025]

Well thats absolutely absurd. Where is all this healthcare money going?!?!?! That's along the lines of what I was thinking before. Some entity is getting filthy rich with the current system, and if we want to nationalize then that entity is going to have to accept far less money.
Insurance companies mostly.

That said, we will more than likely pay less per person with a nationalized program, but more overall since more will be covered (really everyone is already covered, have you ever seen anyone kicked out of the emergency room?)
Also do not discount that people tend to go to the doctor for more trivial matters when they have the perception that it is free (and that drives up the cost). I have an uncle like that.
He goes for every headache, every stomach ache, ect. He has state provided healthcare however, so it does not cost him a dime. I doubt he is the only one that would do that.

[msmith198025]

Without the war, its still over 500 Billion:

Should we cut defense spending?

If so, starting at $500 billion there is not alot you can really cut to help fund this and still have a viable millitary

[msmith198025]

261 billion in interest on federal debt. CRAZY.

And that will go up every year for many years.

[fallout2600]

Who are you? Ross Perot? :)
:free-happy-smileys- That's funny

[fallout2600]

Should we cut defense spending?

If so, starting at $500 billion there is not alot you can really cut to help fund this and still have a viable millitary

China is able to defend themselves for $122 Billion a year. No one is attacking China.

US military spending is almost 55 times the spending on the six “rogue” states (Cuba, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria) whose spending amounts to around $13 billion, maximum.

[Skyhi]

China is able to defend themselves for $122 Billion a year. No one is attacking China.

US military spending is almost 55 times the spending on the six “rogue” states (Cuba, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria) whose spending amounts to around $13 billion, maximum.
Military-Industrial complex. That's our problem.

[msmith198025]

China is able to defend themselves for $122 Billion a year. No one is attacking China.

US military spending is almost 55 times the spending on the six “rogue” states (Cuba, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria) whose spending amounts to around $13 billion, maximum.

True, but china does not (at this point) have the power projection capability that we do either. Theirs is rising as well. NOT going down. It is a matter of time before their spending is comparable.

Yes, and that is one of the reasons that we would have no trouble taking out their (the six rogue) armies if the need did arise.

[fallout2600]

True, but china does not (at this point) have the power projection capability that we do either. Theirs is rising as well. NOT going down. It is a matter of time before their spending is comparable.

Yes, and that is one of the reasons that we would have no trouble taking out their (the six rogue) armies if the need did arise.

China won't be anywhere near us in military spending anytime soon. Our problem is we NEVER leave a country once we place troops there b/c the majority of the time we are there to preserve cheap natural resources. Its time these countries stand on their own so we can fix our own domestic problems.

[froggigger]

Well thats absolutely absurd. Where is all this healthcare money going?!?!?! That's along the lines of what I was thinking before. Some entity is getting filthy rich with the current system, and if we want to nationalize then that entity is going to have to accept far less money.

Government pays nearly 50% of all health care costs. Interference at the federal and state levels makes health care one of the most regulated industries in the USA, and contributes to making it the most expensive. If government gains full control and, make no mistake, Obama wants just that, there will be no market mechanism to determine prices. It will be a government guessing game. The end result will be that the only way government can control costs is by rationing. We need more free market, not more government.

[HD MM]

Insurance companies mostly.

That said, we will more than likely pay less per person with a nationalized program, but more overall since more will be covered (really everyone is already covered, have you ever seen anyone kicked out of the emergency room?)
Also do not discount that people tend to go to the doctor for more trivial matters when they have the perception that it is free (and that drives up the cost). I have an uncle like that.
He goes for every headache, every stomach ache, ect. He has state provided healthcare however, so it does not cost him a dime. I doubt he is the only one that would do that.

At the same time by having people go to doctor's sooner than normal, you'd have diseases/sicknesses caught early when treatable, rather than waiting until it's absolutely necessary and they can't stand it anymore. At that point, a cure would be unlikely and cost to medicate, operate, etc would cost much more than if they would've caught it in it's beginning stages.

After all, medical care should be for the purpose of health and well being. It should NOT be a for profit institution and run like the business like the way it is now.

[HD MM]

Well thats absolutely absurd. Where is all this healthcare money going?!?!?! That's along the lines of what I was thinking before. Some entity is getting filthy rich with the current system, and if we want to nationalize then that entity is going to have to accept far less money.


Insurance companies mostly.



From the Plain Dealer...


The World Heath Organization ranked our employment based private heath insurance as the highest in cost, 37th overall in performance and 72nd overall in level of heath.

CNN reports that 33% of Americans are without heath insurance. The Wall Street Journal predicts 19% of businesses will drop heath insurance benefits in the next 5 years.We need a fix.

We have excellent heath providers, yet 20,000 Americans die each year because they lack access. We spend twice what other countries spend, but a good chunk of the for-profit insurance goes towards insurance administration, advertisements, and million-dollar CEO's.

With an expanded Medicare, which doesn't have the overhead as listed above, we could have significant savings which could be used to provide universal access and negotiate fair prices with doctors and drug companies.

With a little more humanity towards fellow Americans, this can be achieved.

[msmith198025]

At the same time by having people go to doctor's sooner than normal, you'd have diseases/sicknesses caught early when treatable, rather than waiting until it's absolutely necessary and they can't stand it anymore. At that point, a cure would be unlikely and cost to medicate, operate, etc would cost much more than if they would've caught it in it's beginning stages.

After all, medical care should be for the purpose of health and well being. It should NOT be a for profit institution and run like the business like the way it is now.

It is possible some may catch illnesses earlier. It is just as possible that the waiting rooms are flooded with people that have a hangnail, while someone that really needs the care is waiting for hours on end.
Just trying to see both sides, along with the enormous costs that we will all have to pay, and I am sorry, I have not seen significant advantages to this plan yet. I do see many significant shortfalls however.

[HD MM]

It is possible some may catch illnesses earlier. It is just as possible that the waiting rooms are flooded with people that have a hangnail, while someone that really needs the care is waiting for hours on end.
Just trying to see both sides, along with the enormous costs that we will all have to pay, and I am sorry, I have not seen significant advantages to this plan yet. I do see many significant shortfalls however.

You want examples of successful nations that have implemented this? Universal Heath care is being utilized in all but 1 of the wealthy industrialized countries with the exception being the United States. It seems to be the obvious standard by the rest of the world. I don't know why we're so out-of-date.

[msmith198025]

We need a fix.

We have excellent heath providers, yet 20,000 Americans die each year because they lack access. We spend twice what other countries spend, but a good chunk of the for-profit insurance goes towards insurance administration, advertisements, and million-dollar CEO's.

With an expanded Medicare, which doesn't have the overhead as listed above, we could have significant savings which could be used to provide universal access and negotiate fair prices with doctors and drug companies.

With a little more humanity towards fellow Americans, this can be achieved.
Yes, we have excellent health providers. The best in the world. Do you think it will stay that way under a new plan? Where these "fair" prices are negotiated/fixed by some government official? I dont.

[msmith198025]

You want examples of successful nations that have implemented this? Universal Heath care is being utilized in all but 1 of the wealthy industrialized countries with the exception being the United States. It seems to be the obvious standard by the rest of the world. I don't know why we're so out-of-date.
Yet most still consider the healthcare that it offered here to be the best, as far as actual care is concerned. Why is that?

[HD MM]

Yet most still consider the healthcare that it offered here to be the best, as far as actual care is concerned. Why is that?

Well that actually depends on who you talk to. Of the industrialized countries, the USA has the lowest average life expectancy and the highest infant mortality rates, yet we also have the highest per-person heath care cost.

One area we do well is our life expectancy after the age of 65 which is when our national heath care program becomes available.

[froggigger]

You want examples of successful nations that have implemented this? Universal Heath care is being utilized in all but 1 of the wealthy industrialized countries with the exception being the United States. It seems to be the obvious standard by the rest of the world. I don't know why we're so out-of-date.

We're "out-of-date" because the whole story never gets out. Every developed country has the same three problems no matter what system is in play: inadequate quality, incomplete access, and rising costs. There is no shortage of articles that supposedly show that the health care systems in other countries are superior to ours but there is a lot more economic literature that shows otherwise. Our system is far from perfect but it is not inferior to the socialized systems in other countries. Those systems are even more rife with government intervention than ours and using them as examples to model our system would be a serious mistake.

[fallout2600]

I prefer the high cost preventative approach we have here now. It results in more lives saved from cancer and other diseases. I'd rather get a pointless brain scan now, than die of a brain tumor within a year b/c the cost was too high to due preemptive screening.

[msmith198025]

This story will always be spun to whichever side is in power.

Those that believe either way will support such.
Trying for it will probably cost us our best and brightest in this area. It happens.

Just my opinion. You do not have to agree.