What does everyone do for a living?

[HDRoberts]

A common theme I see when talking class is that people say that their wealth is simply a result of their hard work, and their putting in 80-100 hours a week. I don't doubt that (although sometimes I think it is exaggerated perhaps).

But I was thinking. I'm in civil engineering. We are not an independent field (except for rarely specialized and experienced engineers, who are in demand enough to get work independently). I work in government, which outside of consulting, is one of the few places for a civil engineer.

Thing is, even if I did work 80-100 hours a week, I'd see no benefit. In fact, I'd probably get yelled at. Maybe I'd see a faster promotion, but I'd never be running the show. Even then, the one running the show in our industry makes under the $200k threshold, that top income bracket you are so worried about.

Then it occurred to me, the same is generally true in the private sector. More work usually does not mean more money. Nor does it mean promotion to head honcho, as these are typically MBAs and lawyers.

No doubt you will now tell me how it's all my fault. I chose the wrong career. And maybe so. But, you see, I'm not sure what alternative I could have gone for that would have made long work hours pay. I said in another thread that this is the closest to a meritocracy as is out there. But I believe it is not a true one. For 90% of employees, hard work is not sufficiently rewarded.

But somehow you all (conservatives at least) claim to have done it. So my question, what do you do for a living?

I know msmith owns a lumberyard. What else do you people do that has made wealthy solely through a product of hard work?

[stevenl]

Wealthy? Well to me wealthy would be the guy paying the rich guys salary.

But anyway what do I do. Well lets take a ride down history lane.

I started out of highschool as a contracter for a company called "Road Runner (ala TimeWarner)" Im a bit of a computer nerd so I thought man id love to work with computers etc all day. Come to find out the job was about 20% computers and 80% coax cable work. So needless to say I got to learn a new craft I knew nothing about.

I enjoyed it enough to within 9 months or so I decided to go work for the company itself (as I was a sub-contracter before with them). So I have moved myself up through this company about 6 rungs up on the ladder to where I am now. I did this at a pretty face paced compared to others, in fact I am the youngest person doing this position at this company. How did I go past all these people who were here longer then me (by years) ? Well becuase I was dedicated to my job, because I wanted more out of it then justa pay check. I took advantage of all the FREE education the company provides. Youd be surprised, this company pays 100% for schooling in our field. Yet youd be hard pressed to find someone taking advantage of it. I went from starting at about 23k a year to now pushing 60k a year. Which in orlando area is a great income.

I didnt get where I am by chance, it was hard work and dedication. And working long hours helps to, (overtime pay is great). Ive had to sacrifice a lot to do this job including working several holidays (this past christmas and news years eve for example)

Hard work and dedication does pay off. If your at a dead end job with no room for advancement, hey maybe time to find another job. I wanted to work in computers, but that was a saterated market, so I took the oppurtunity to do this job and its worked out for me.

I dont plan on getting rich here, at least not right away. But its not as much about how much money you make, but what you do with what you make. I dont live much differnt today at my current salary then I did at the smalller one. i may eat out a few more times, or may not have to deny going somewhere because of money but it has not changed my way of thinking. I am not trying to bite off more then I can handle I am franticly saving as much as I can for my early retirement (by early I mean around 50ish)

[HDRoberts]

What is "this position" if I may ask?

I might add to my own circumstance that working overtime and holidays is just about never an option. I personally, with little family, would LOVE to work holidays.

I also try to take on any education I can get, but it is not paid for here.

[msmith198025]

I know msmith owns a lumberyard. What else do you people do that has made wealthy solely through a product of hard work?

Well, it is a family business. My dad and his brothers are the actual owners, myself and two cousins are the other three (along with my mom) that help with the running of the company (well two of them, we have a logging/trucking company as well)

There is no way to make anything in this business UNLESS it is by hard backbreaking AND mental work. You get there at 5:30, and SOMETIMES dont leave until 8 p.m. Sometimes its later, sometimes earlier. Often times the work will follow you home via phone calls and such. No such thing as a real day off when you are responsible not only for your lively hood, but also the well being of the employees you have.

That said, there is an old saying on how to make a small fortune in the sawmill/lumber/timber industry. First you start with a large fortune, the rest will just happen over time ;)

[NickG420]

I work for a woman owned small business that specializes in SKOs (Sets, Kits and Outfits) for the US military. I am second in command of their logistics and contracting division. I mainly manage their current contracts with GSA (General Services Administration) and help add new vendor lines to those contracts. I also establish new contracts should we need one. I have also put kits together in the warehouse we we needed to get things out the door, I've woked in our sales department, purchasing, I help manage our databases. I'm a jack of all trades here.

Aside from just our SKOs we are a huge distributor of tools and equipment. Hand tools, power tools, Bobcats; Everything from a box of nails to a firetruck we can get it. I've been here from the beginning almost when we were struggling to gross $30MIL a year. This past year we did a little over $300MIL.

We have a little over 100 employees and we are like one big family here. I can't really think of anywhere else where I would be happier. It's really a great company.

[vurbano]

Professional Engineer in Civil Engineering
10 years as a consultant with Buchart-Horn Engineers and 12 years with the City here. Ive designed roads, Bridges, pipe lines/forcemains, storm sewers, sanitary sewers, pump stations including all disciplines (mechanical, electrical, architectural and structural), site plans, control systems, SCADA systems and etc. HD is right though, those that produce in municipal government are not promoted to lead their department. They are just given more work to do and subjected to the idiot press and public that think no one does anything. City employees are scape goats. We have no control over what high profile expensive projects are built that arent needed costing millions just to buy votes for some council member and when the City is in financial trouble what do they do? They axe your retirement to balance the budget. Our last City Manager lost his job because he refused to build a multi million dollar rec center for a councilwoman that would have consumed more than 1/2 of the city's yearly budget. He was a lifer that started at the bottom and with 25+ years of dedicated service actually cared about the city. And what did he get for that?

Fired.

[DodgerKing]

High school math teacher
Math department chair
Community College summer coordinator for their high school enrichment program (administrative position)
Support provider (observes and monitors progress of teachers working on clearing their credentials)
Student teacher facilitator

[cybok0]

I work in a grocery store.

[stevenl]

What is "this position" if I may ask?

I might add to my own circumstance that working overtime and holidays is just about never an option. I personally, with little family, would LOVE to work holidays.

I also try to take on any education I can get, but it is not paid for here.

Well my official Title is "Sweep Tech" heres kinda how the ladder works

contracter
Installer
Service
Priority
QC
CLI
Maintence
Sweep
Hub
Headend

Thats pretty much how it goes as far as field work. Then there are supervisors for each group installer/service/priority share supervisors, then maintence and sweep share supervisors cli and qc have there own hub headend etc..

I could be a supervisor at any point as a Sweep Tech is the highest level field tech availible. There is three in my group and each of us rotate covering for our supervisor when hes on vacation, meetings etc. We are basicacly in field supervisors if you will. Anyway I could be a supervisor but the pay sucks. They are salary and I am hourly. I get paid quite a bit more then my boss. Id take a pay cut going into management. Sure he gets paid more hourly then me, but with my standby OT and such I make way more.

I am in charge of an entire "hub" as far as the field goes. I have a group of maintence guys who work under me and we just maintain the plant. We deal with Internet, Phone, TV etc services.

[stevenl]

Well, it is a family business. My dad and his brothers are the actual owners, myself and two cousins are the other three (along with my mom) that help with the running of the company (well two of them, we have a logging/trucking company as well)

There is no way to make anything in this business UNLESS it is by hard backbreaking AND mental work. You get there at 5:30, and SOMETIMES dont leave until 8 p.m. Sometimes its later, sometimes earlier. Often times the work will follow you home via phone calls and such. No such thing as a real day off when you are responsible not only for your lively hood, but also the well being of the employees you have.

That said, there is an old saying on how to make a small fortune in the sawmill/lumber/timber industry. First you start with a large fortune, the rest will just happen over time ;)

Oh I see, you had everything handed to you. You spoiled little rich kid.

[HDRoberts]

HD is right though, those that produce in municipal government are not promoted to lead their department. They are just given more work to do and sujected to the idiot press and public that think no one does anything. City employees are scape goats. We have no control over what high profile expensive projects are built that arent needed costing millions just to buy votes for some council member and when the City is in financial trouble what do they do? They axe your retirement to balance the budget.

Hey, how about that, another area where we agree. :)

[HDRoberts]

Oh I see, you had everything handed to you. You spoiled little rich kid.

When did I say that?

[stevenl]

Who did I quote?

[msmith198025]

Oh I see, you had everything handed to you. You spoiled little rich kid.

Haha, yeah right. After school work while kids were at home, summer work while kids were at home, spring break? Whats that? I finally went on a spring break trip at 24, and it was on the weekend after I worked. lol

Granted, my parents provided me with everything I needed (note needed, not always everything I wanted), but I developed a strong work ethic because of how I was raised. Wouldnt trade it for anything, as I consider it the most valuable thing I have, aside from my family of course.

I will raise my children the same.

[msmith198025]

When did I say that?

He was quoting me, and I ASSume he was joking.

[HDRoberts]

Who did I quote?

Sure felt like that was directed at me, the guy you all think hates rich people.

[cybok0]

Oh I see, you had everything handed to you. You spoiled little rich kid.


Haha, yeah right. After school work while kids were at home, summer work while kids were at home, spring break? Whats that? I finally went on a spring break trip at 24, and it was on the weekend after I worked. lol

Granted, my parents provided me with everything I needed (note needed, not always everything I wanted), but I developed a strong work ethic because of how I was raised. Wouldnt trade it for anything, as I consider it the most valuable thing I have, aside from my family of course.

I will raise my children the same.

He's gonna raise me the same way also.:free-happy-smileys-

[msmith198025]

Sure felt like that was directed at me, the guy you all think hates rich people.

I dont see how, you werent the one he quoted, and your name was not mentioned in my post.

[msmith198025]

He's gonna raise me the same way also.:free-happy-smileys-

Go clean your room tom

[stevenl]

You know what happens when you Assume... :)

[cybok0]

Go clean your room tom

NO!!!!:mad:



:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-

[msmith198025]

NO!!!!:mad:



:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-

You are grounded

[cybok0]

You are grounded

I can't watch Bama?:pleur::pleur::pleur::pleur::pleur:

[stevenl]

Oh no daddy. Dont ground me and make me stay in our mansion with my computer, xbox, wii, playstation 3, iphone, 50inch plasma, with all the channels.

What ever will I do..

[cybok0]

Oh no daddy. Dont ground me and make me stay in our mansion with my computer, xbox, wii, playstation 3, iphone, 50inch plasma, with all the channels.

What ever will I do..

He doesn't have a iphone, he's smart and has a Blackberry.:)

[msmith198025]

I can't watch Bama?:pleur::pleur::pleur::pleur::pleur:

Fine "son", after the game, you go straight to your room, and stay there. If I hear a sound, I swear to god......

[msmith198025]

He doesn't have a iphone, he's smart and has a Blackberry.:)

:free-happy-smileys-:thumbup:

[cybok0]

Fine "son", after the game, you go straight to your room, and stay there. If I hear a sound, I swear to god......

lmao!

[Skyhi]

I'm currently a househusband, but am actively seeking employment. My last job was a law clerk. Before that, I worked in a grocery store for 10 years (worked my butt off in high school and college).

I have a law degree and an accounting degree and hope to do something in that field. My wife is the big breadwinner. :D :D

[Derwin0]

hmm... let's see...

Went to college (Go Jackets!) on a combination of scholarships, grants, and loans, as my father couldn't afford to pay for it. I also worked part time during school to help pay for it (campus parking, most hated job on campus, I wrote parking tickets :nana: )

After that, I went into the Marine Corps, who pretty much paid off my loans for me, OOHRAH!!!

When I got out, I got a job as an Electrical Engineer for a defense contractor doing electrical design on ground vehicles. After several years of hard work, I've managed to work myself up to lead Electrical Engineer for supporting production.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

Go clean your room tom

Nah....I need more Mafia. He is the Godfather.

[HD MM]

Went to college for Journalism and Business Management. An inspiring writer and future restaurant owner, I'm in neither occupation right now.

Out of school, I was a mortgage broker for a while, but when the housing market went to the crapper, I went into the construction business for at the time that was still booming.

My current title is Project Manager. I bid and manage various jobs in the Mechanical Engineering Trade (process piping, HVAC, plumbing, sprinkler, etc). We do most of our work in the steel mills, power plants and hospitals. Mostly heavy industrial though. We're also a union outfit and employee strictly union pipefitters, plumbers & tinners.

[HDRoberts]

After that, I went into the Marine Corps, who pretty much paid off my loans for me, OOHRAH!!!

Ahh, so how do you conservatives feel about this redistribution of wealth?:)


I work for a woman owned small business that specializes in SKOs (Sets, Kits and Outfits) for the US military. I am second in command of their logistics and contracting division. I mainly manage their current contracts with GSA (General Services Administration) and help add new vendor lines to those contracts. I also establish new contracts should we need one. I have also put kits together in the warehouse we we needed to get things out the door, I've woked in our sales department, purchasing, I help manage our databases. I'm a jack of all trades here.

Aside from just our SKOs we are a huge distributor of tools and equipment. Hand tools, power tools, Bobcats; Everything from a box of nails to a firetruck we can get it. I've been here from the beginning almost when we were struggling to gross $30MIL a year. This past year we did a little over $300MIL.

We have a little over 100 employees and we are like one big family here. I can't really think of anywhere else where I would be happier. It's really a great company.

Interesting. You seem to me to be quite the conservative, but it looks like you benefit heavily from the liberal policy to give portions of contracts to WBE/FBE firms.

It also sounds like a lot of the extra work you go may be due to the wars in the Middle East. And thus that some of your success came from having those contracts readily available. Again, just interesting.



Also, from hearing your jobs, I'm not sure we have met anyone that is in the top income bracket that so many here are so worried about seeing a tax increase. Actually, I'm not sure anyone is even in the top 2 brackets.

[Skyhi]

Also, from hearing your jobs, I'm not sure we have met anyone that is in the top income bracket that so many here are so worried about seeing a tax increase. Actually, I'm not sure anyone is even in the top 2 brackets.
They will say that the people in the top bracket are the ones doing the hiring and that raising taxes on this group will result in less hiring and/or layoffs.

[HDRoberts]

They will say that the people in the top bracket are the ones doing the hiring and that raising taxes on this group will result in less hiring and/or layoffs.

Oh, I know what they say. I just think experience does not bear that out.

[NickG420]

Interesting. You seem to me to be quite the conservative, but it looks like you benefit heavily from the liberal policy to give portions of contracts to WBE/FBE firms. Sure certain solicitations are set aside for small businesses, in fact any solicitation under the Simplified Acqusition Threshold is automatically set aside for small business. However, it makes alot less difference than you seem to be implying. In my experience we'd beat out the large businesses most of the time anyway. Depending on what the solicitation was for of course.


It also sounds like a lot of the extra work you go may be due to the wars in the Middle East. And thus that some of your success came from having those contracts readily available. Again, just interesting. I have no problem admitting that war is good for our business. Of course that does not mean I want the war to continue anymore than you do. It's not like I say "I don;t hare how many soldiers died today, we did 20 million this month!" I'm not saying you are suggesting that I just want to be clear.

My main concern in my line of work is making sure our soldiers get the equipment they need no matter where they are; in the US, the Middle East, Korea, Germany, hell I don't care if they are on Mars. My number one priority is cutting through all the red tape so this Private in charge of ordering supplies can get the items his fellow soldier requisitioned as easy as possible.

Soldiers first...Keeping our family employed is a close second...Dollars grossed is way down on our list of priorities I assure.


Also, from hearing your jobs, I'm not sure we have met anyone that is in the top income bracket that so many here are so worried about seeing a tax increase. Actually, I'm not sure anyone is even in the top 2 brackets. I don't know about you but with me and my wife filing jointly we will probably be at 35% this year.

[msmith198025]

They will say that the people in the top bracket are the ones doing the hiring and that raising taxes on this group will result in less hiring and/or layoffs.

And it very well could. I know if our taxes go up, in this economy, we will have to make it back somewhere. Right now, we probably have an employee or two that we could do without. Hate to lay a person off, but if it comes down to it, we will. Hell if I have to get out there and do the job myself, so be it.

[NickG420]

What I want to know is what happens when you tax the "wealthy" so much that there's no incentive to try to become wealthy anymore? That people begin saying no thank you to that $250K position because they bring more home at $175K or whatever the case may be.

Hell it may already be that way for some people, which is why they try to find tax shelters and hide income.

[HDRoberts]

What I want to know is what happens when you tax the "wealthy" so much that there's no incentive to try to become wealthy anymore? That people begin saying no thank you to that $250K position because they bring more home at $175K or whatever the case may be.

Hell it may already be that way for some people, which is why they try to find tax shelters and hide income.

The marginal income tax system has NEVER been that way. No one brings home less in a $250k job than a $175k job, even in the 30s-60s, when the top bracket was in excess of 80% (up to 92%, in fact).

People hide money in tax shelters because they want to greedily hold on to more of it. Pure and simple. Tax evasion is hardly the exclusive domain of the rich, only the greedy who think rule of law does not apply to them.

Also, question for you. Do you think that you would be in that 35% bracket if it were not for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Again, I'm not trying to say you love war, but my point is that in just about every case, luck and being at the right place a the right time plays a role, right along side hard work.

[cybok0]

IMO people should pay the same percentage. If I pay 10% than someone that makes over 100K should also pay 10%.

I also do think that businesses should get tax breaks to hire people and to supply good medical insurance.

[msmith198025]

IMO people should pay the same percentage. If I pay 10% than someone that makes over 100K should also pay 10%.

I also do think that businesses should get tax breaks to hire people and to supply good medical insurance.

You should run for office. I would vote for ya:D

[cybok0]

you should run for office. I would vote for ya:d

lol.

[cybok0]

You should run for office. I would vote for ya:D

Along time ago here Volkswagen had a manufacturing plant here but the state took away its tax breaks so they left. Sony took over the plant to build TVs, well they lost their tax breaks and now they are gone. A company that makes solar panels are moving in, hopefully I can get a job there, I wonder if the state has learned their lesson yet.

[cybok0]

You should run for office. I would vote for ya:D

Give businesses incentives, pollution free more of a break, good medical insurance a little more, keep the work force going a little more and so on. But it could go the other way also, pollute more than aloud for your business lose some tax breaks and so on.

[vurbano]

People hide money in tax shelters because they want to greedily hold on to more of it. Pure and simple. The government should have no right profit or its interest nor money that money makes after they tax an individual for making the seed money for those investments the first time. Double taxation on the same dollars or their profits should be illegal. Make everyone pay the same rate on the initial dollars earn and make the system truely fair for everyone.

[NickG420]

Also, question for you. Do you think that you would be in that 35% bracket if it were not for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Again, I'm not trying to say you love war, but my point is that in just about every case, luck and being at the right place a the right time plays a role, right along side hard work.

I make a set salary. I mean sure I get raises every year and bonuses. My salary alone does not put us in the 35% bracket my wife is self employed and owns her own business. Both salaries combined put us in that bracket. It doesn't matter much though single I would still be at 33%.

However, I'm not sure what the point is that your trying to make? I mean all businesses require a bit of luck and being in the "right place right time". That's what business is all about? You seem to be implying my company is different because it's the war.

[HDRoberts]

I make a set salary. I mean sure I get raises every year and bonuses. My salary alone does not put us in the 35% bracket my wife is self employed and owns her own business. Both salaries combined put us in that bracket. It doesn't matter much though single I would still be at 33%.

However, I'm not sure what the point is that your trying to make? I mean all businesses require a bit of luck and being in the "right place right time". That's what business is all about? You seem to be implying my company is different because it's the war.

No. My point is there are a lot of people in the middle class who do work very hard, but simply were not at the right place at the right time. We should raise their share just because they had no luck? And, conversely, since it wasn't all hard work, should not some of the wealthier people pay a higher percentage?

I'm trying to hold off on the war profiteering aspects. I sincerely hope your company isn't one of those that's charging $3,000 for a cordless drill.:)

[NickG420]

35% of my income is not enough? Is that what you're telling me?

[HDRoberts]

35% of my income is not enough? Is that what you're telling me?

It's not 35% of your income. It's 35% ABOVE $250k (or whatever the cutoff is these days). Don't you understand marginal tax rates? Your first $46,000 is taxes exactly the same amount as my first (well, only) $46,000.

And I'm only advocating a return to 1990s levels. 39.6%.

If fact, if we got rid of BS deductions, and stopped giving capital gains a preferential rate (my proposal), we could get the top bracket lower.

[Derwin0]

Ahh, so how do you conservatives feel about this redistribution of wealth?:)
What redistribution?

I had a signing bonus that paid a large portion (in-state tuition in the State of Georgia isn't that high), and dedicated a portion of my base pay to paying the rest off while I was exempt from interest (interest on gov't student loans is suspended for 3 years when someone enters the military).

And how is it redistribution when it's part of your benefits package? My current employer pays for any schooling I want to do, is that redistribution of stock holders' wealth? Them paying for schooling is no different than the military paying for peoples schooling (except my company pays 100% and the military only pays 75%).

Your current employer pays for your health care, is that also redistribution of the city dwellers' wealth?

Either way, I worked my ass off paying for everything myself to get where I am. There was no "winning of life's lottery" involved, just hard work. No reason anyone else can't do the same.

[NickG420]

I still almost pay in taxes what you earn in a year...I'm not bragging by any means, just putting it into perspective.

[Bob Haller]

Along time ago here Volkswagen had a manufacturing plant here but the state took away its tax breaks so they left. Sony took over the plant to build TVs, well they lost their tax breaks and now they are gone. A company that makes solar panels are moving in, hopefully I can get a job there, I wonder if the state has learned their lesson yet.

I am from pittsburgh and fix machines in that plants area. had friends who worked there for sony

its truly sad whats happened there, but I guess were lucky to have any manufacturing in the US at all anymore:(

china, dirt cheap workers with no environmental or eployee safety laws, near no benefits.

how does the US compete with that?

[Derwin0]

I am from pittsburgh and fix machines in that plants area. had friends who worked there for sony

its truly sad whats happened there, but I guess were lucky to have any manufacturing in the US at all anymore:(

china, dirt cheap workers with no environmental or eployee safety laws, near no benefits.
Don't even need that. Cat was a huge employer in York County. They moved to Kentucky because the union decided to play hardball. Almost lost Harley as well, but the union wised up and dealed with the company. Eddie giving millions to Harley also helped.

[vurbano]

every dollar in the US should be taxed at the same rate.

[DodgerKing]

People hide money in tax shelters because they want to greedily hold on to more of it. Pure and simple. Tax evasion is hardly the exclusive domain of the rich, only the greedy who think rule of law does not apply to them.
Really?

You realize you have to pay taxes on this income eventually? You either pay now (ie a Roth IRA) or later, when you take the money out of the shelter.

We set up tax shelters for ourself for retirement. Some of our money is invested in a Roth IRA so we won't get taxed too heavily when we go to use it. It is not done to greedily hold on to more money.

Besides, how is it considered greed for one to hold on to the money that they make through their work, but not considered greed for a bureaucracy to take nearly half of one's money for subsidizing programs in which they have no business subsidizing?

[DodgerKing]

Ahh, so how do you conservatives feel about this redistribution of wealth?:)
Simple, it is not redistribution of wealth. It is called working and getting paid to do so.

[Blackhitachi]

Well i am the Black guy here so ill say this! I'm a Pimp and i sell dope! LOL

No i am a IT tech but will do anything i often will take on a second job to pay bills or help family. I do not like big city's at all! So even though i may be qualified for something different i chose to stay here. The fishing, camping and hunting!!! All of which i love and enjoy!

[vurbano]

The fishing, camping and hunting!!! All of which i love and enjoy!You sure you're not white? (just jkn)

[msmith198025]

Well i am the Black guy here so ill say this! I'm a Pimp and i sell dope! LOL
No i am a IT tech but will do anything i often will take on a second job to pay bills or help family. I do not like big city's at all! So even though i may be qualified for something different i chose to stay here. The fishing, camping and hunting!!! All of which i love and enjoy!


:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-

Wait, yuou are black?????:05: Haha.
Man, if more people had your attitude (or what it seems to be) about race, black and white, most of those types of problems would disappear.:thumbup:

[Blackhitachi]

You sure you're not white? (just jkn)No problem:free-happy-smileys- Yes i do and my kids do also.:thumbup:

[DodgerKing]

No problem:free-happy-smileys- Yes i do and my kids do also.:thumbup:
And here I thought your user name just meant you had a black TV. :)

[iceturkee]

retired newspaper reporter

[Blackhitachi]

And here I thought your user name just meant you had a black TV. :)I do three of them!!:thumbup:

[Bear Paws]

Sure felt like that was directed at me, the guy you all think hates rich people. I don't think you hate rich people.. I just think you don't believe there should be any rich people allowed or at least limited in the amount of wealth (very small) a person should be allowed to keep by government punishment and decree (taxes). That everything (property and means of production) should be owned by the benevolent government and all people should work for the government or commune for equal pay and benefits.. All of course except you if you had the opportunity. The oppertunity that only we can create for ourselves, by the way. Not the government. The government creates nothing.. All the government can do is remove the unfair road blocks it imposes on success in the name of equality and fairness.

Life is not fair nor is it zero sum.. ..

You want to be a restaurateur... then be one. The only thing stopping you is you. You would find a way if that was really anything more than a idle dream for conversation... Even if it meant starting out with a street cart selling hot dogs in front of Home Depot.. Your paralyzed by fear of failure because you never learned your a winner. Our education system made certain of that. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not impugning you. Just telling you the truth.

Show me someone that never failed and I'll show you someone that never tried. Getting and keeping a government job is the easy way. The reward is as great as the risk.. Believe me... the "failures" don't envy you..If anything you should envy them for their tenacity, fortitude, entrepreneurial spirit. Rather than lay in ambush to wait till they are successful and have picked themselves up for the final time so you can punish them by redistributing that which they finally earned. Did you help them when they failed?? No, the only ones that deserve your help are those that never even try. Or are "too big to fail" because it's failure might effect your serene life.

I'm a SCORE volunteer/counseling mentor. You would never get under my tutelage with your attitude. Not because of me but because you would not make the first move to get to me... I don't go and seek out entrepreneurs and small business owners.They need the initiative to to come to us, to make the sacrifices necessary and the incentive to reap the fantastic rewards of working for your self.

You can succeed beyond imagine working for others too but the same imagination, drive, and sacrifice is necessary as if the business was your own. If you treat someone else's business as you would your own you will be rewarded. Life is all about choices. You are what you choose to be.

I used to tell my employees. There are three kinds of people. Those that make things happen, Those that watch things happen, and Those that wonder what happened.. The choice is yours.

[msmith198025]

You can succeed beyond imagine working for others too but the same imagination, drive, and sacrifice is necessary as if the business was your own. If you treat someone else's business as you would your own you will be rewarded. Life is all about choices. You are what you choose to be.

I used to tell my employees. There are three kinds of people. Those that make things happen, Those that watch things happen, and Those that wonder what happened.. The choice is yours.

That is so true. Treat where you work as if it were your own, MAKE it happen. It wont without it, and wont many times in spite of it, but it surely wont if you dont. NOT directed at anyone in any way, but this is good advice.

[Bear Paws]

A common theme I see when talking class is that people say that their wealth is simply a result of their hard work, and their putting in 80-100 hours a week. I don't doubt that (although sometimes I think it is exaggerated perhaps).

But I was thinking. I'm in civil engineering. We are not an independent field (except for rarely specialized and experienced engineers, who are in demand enough to get work independently). I work in government, which outside of consulting, is one of the few places for a civil engineer.

Thing is, even if I did work 80-100 hours a week, I'd see no benefit. In fact, I'd probably get yelled at. Maybe I'd see a faster promotion, but I'd never be running the show. Even then, the one running the show in our industry makes under the $200k threshold, that top income bracket you are so worried about.

Then it occurred to me, the same is generally true in the private sector. More work usually does not mean more money. Nor does it mean promotion to head honcho, as these are typically MBAs and lawyers.

No doubt you will now tell me how it's all my fault. I chose the wrong career. And maybe so. But, you see, I'm not sure what alternative I could have gone for that would have made long work hours pay. I said in another thread that this is the closest to a meritocracy as is out there. But I believe it is not a true one. For 90% of employees, hard work is not sufficiently rewarded.

But somehow you all (conservatives at least) claim to have done it. So my question, what do you do for a living?

I know msmith owns a lumberyard. What else do you people do that has made wealthy solely through a product of hard work? I suspect that opening paragragh was inspired by my posts..Well its a start anyways. At least your asking questions, Robert.. Most don't even know the question...

I haven't had a real job in over 45 Years. So far it appears that Smithy and I are the only ones to be able to say that. Also MAD has had his moments of self employment.

I grew up in a hard working entrepreneurial emigrant family from Hungary. My Father, a self made Chef, worked every kind of job imaginable as did my Mother, a cook, that scrubbed floors to be able to create their dream. A Inn/Hotel in the Berkshires. They arrived on these shore around 1938 and 1939 with only their clothes in a satchel the size of a small gym bag and not a dime in their pocket. A couple years later they met, married, and I was born in 1943 They bought the 20 room farm house to be the "INN" in 1950..for $10,000 with no money down from the people they worked for...Just barley having enough seed money they saved to open the doors as a INN.

My Dad died when I was 16 in the early spring of 1960 and my mother and I ran the INN till I was 20. Her heart was not in it as the dream died with my Dad and we closed it. She moved back to NYC and eventually sold it and retired.
She like my dad was born 1906 so they where both on in age. Hell they where in their 30s when they came to America.

The Inn never made enough in the 2 months of summer to take us through the winter. Like my parents I worked for others during the winters till I was 20. I signed up with the DIA at 20 and swore in on Nov, 22 1963 at 1000 hr EST.

1967 I was at Walter Reed for repairs for a month. After discharge from Reed I had a month and a half of rest and recovery before returning back to the jungles of Nam and Cambodia. I had some saved pay coming so a friend who just got separated from the Air Force and I started a Courier business. Well actually we bought one van and put him, (Tom) on the road.

6 months later, early 68, I came back and bought another van for me and we opened a 2 bay gas station in Springfield Mass. as a office for the courier business. The cheaper gas and a maintenance facility plus the income from the station gave us a year of growth so that by years end we had 4 vans, Tom and me with 3 drivers, a faithful gas jockey and a good mechanic..

I stayed on with DIA as a field op and contracted special assignments and operations on as needed basis. Usually 6 month operations in the Eastern Bloc behind the lines with NOC. (No Official Cover) until 1979 when I just could no longer work for Jimmy Carter and the Church Committee any more.

A year later (69) we got out of gas station and got a bigger warehouse with loading docks. Got our first straight truck. We started to handle larger same day or "hot shot" expedited freight as well as small packages from Hartford BDL Airport. By mid 70s we had 20 trucks 30 employees and got a bigger terminal closer to BDL.

By 1985 we had 100 employees and 80 trucks of varying sizes from vans to tractor trailers also doing general freight now. Then disaster struck. The Teamsters infiltrated us and we soon lost control of our business and we realized we could not survive as a union shop and be competitive with the dozens of small owner operators (like we where once) proliferating the region. The silver lining came when 2 union thugs came into our office and proceeded to tell us how it was going to be. WE threw them out and closed down operations that night. Recalled all the trucks and fired everyone.

We auctioned off most of the trucks, some at cost or owed, and reopened the "lemonade stand" a month later as a different operation. Back to our roots as a same day delivery service with 30 trucks, no union and less headaches. Most of our old employees where waiting at the door with hat in hand.

Now getting to the 80 to 100 hours. We where a 24 hour 7 day 365 day operation. Tom and I could do any job at anytime and often did. What ever it took we did it. I spent a many nights at the shop in the early days working on the equipment so that I and the drivers had something to drive next day. Even later on as we got big I or Tom would spend the night to help handle the dispatch traffic and even drive again to make special deliveries ourselves if we where busy. (That's where the union had a cow)..After the gas station we always had a "sleep" room and showers as well as a drivers lounge..

I spent countless hours awake worrying about and figuring out on making payroll. That's something that doesn't enter into most employees minds, especially those that work for the government. But when your accounts received doesn't make up your payroll its a god awful gut wrenching agony.. You make it happen somehow.... even if you have to borrow the money personally and not only not take a pay but you loan the money back to the company. When I rarely did go on a few days vacation I took the shop with me by phone. It never leaves you. The business is your whole life. Its who and what you are. The constant networking, contemplation and the sphincter pucker that you just could cause 100 people or more and their family to lose their livelihood.

See..Unlike a employee, its not just you and your own family you have to think and worry about. ...... Its everyone you touch... from your employees to your customers and their customers, and your vendors that depend on your word..depend on you getting it right.. Its a huge responsibility. That is what I used to get paid for..To take that responsibility very seriously.

About 4 years ago a couple guys walked in and asked if we where interested in selling the company. Lock stock and bullets. Tom and I never even considered that until that day. They where from a large international shipping company and wanted to get into the Hartford/Springfield area with a going operation..They asked for our accountant and books to show their accounting dept. They then came back with a offer that was more than Tom and I expected. We only stipulated they keep all our employees for at least a year.
June 30, 2006 I signed the last payroll, insurance, withholding, and FICA contribution checks that totaled $100,000 a week for 50 people and we retired.

I would do it all again without a second thought in a heartbeat..

I now live off the sale proceeds, investments, and the rental properties I picked up over the years as well as $680 in SS (that they take 100 bucks out for Medicare). As a partnership we did not have to contribute to SS for the longest time....when it was cheap. I been selling off the rental properties as No Money down deals, the same way I acquired them, trying to beat the capital gains redistribution tax hikes of 2011. I live a very austere life style and still probably pay as much in taxes as you make a year. Like Nick I don't mean that as bragging. There where many many years I made as much as you paid in taxes and nobody cried for me...

You want to redistribute... try redistributing my money over the last 45 years to me first...

[froggigger]

I don't think you hate rich people.. I just think you don't believe there should be any rich people allowed or at least limited in the amount of wealth (very small) a person should be allowed to keep by government punishment and decree (taxes). That everything (property and means of production) should be owned by the benevolent government and all people should work for the government or commune for equal pay and benefits.. All of course except you if you had the opportunity. The oppertunity that only we can create for ourselves, by the way. Not the government. The government creates nothing.. All the government can do is remove the unfair road blocks it imposes on success in the name of equality and fairness.

Life is not fair nor is it zero sum.. ..

You want to be a restaurateur... then be one. The only thing stopping you is you. You would find a way if that was really anything more than a idle dream for conversation... Even if it meant starting out with a street cart selling hot dogs in front of Home Depot.. Your paralyzed by fear of failure because you never learned your a winner. Our education system made certain of that. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not impugning you. Just telling you the truth.

Show me someone that never failed and I'll show you someone that never tried. Getting and keeping a government job is the easy way. The reward is as great as the risk.. Believe me... the "failures" don't envy you..If anything you should envy them for their tenacity, fortitude, entrepreneurial spirit. Rather than lay in ambush to wait till they are successful and have picked themselves up for the final time so you can punish them by redistributing that which they finally earned. Did you help them when they failed?? No, the only ones that deserve your help are those that never even try. Or are "too big to fail" because it's failure might effect your serene life.

I'm a SCORE volunteer/counseling mentor. You would never get under my tutelage with your attitude. Not because of me but because you would not make the first move to get to me... I don't go and seek out entrepreneurs and small business owners.They need the initiative to to come to us, to make the sacrifices necessary and the incentive to reap the fantastic rewards of working for your self.

You can succeed beyond imagine working for others too but the same imagination, drive, and sacrifice is necessary as if the business was your own. If you treat someone else's business as you would your own you will be rewarded. Life is all about choices. You are what you choose to be.

I used to tell my employees. There are three kinds of people. Those that make things happen, Those that watch things happen, and Those that wonder what happened.. The choice is yours.

Post of the decade. Well said. :thumbup::thumbup:

[HDRoberts]

First, Bear, let me say this post was not directed solely at you. It was directed against the implication I've been seeing that the economy is a 100% meritocracy. That hard work was the sole ingredient to success, and thus that it followed that the rich should keep more of their money because they earned it, and the the poor were only poor because they are lazy.

I would love to be self employed. I admit part of the problem is that I'm risk averse. But the other problem is that that is not where my skills lie. I firmly believe that some people are just more skilled at some things than others. My skills happen to lie with engineering design of hydraulic and hydrological systems (hydro meaning water). But engineering design is best when it is collaborative. Also, very few private interests are interested in that area of engineering design. That is how I arrived in government. It had nothing to do with my seeking it out as the "easy way." Heck, I didn't even apply. I was looking in the private sector. But they found me though my college.

Anyway, I do not advocate that the governemnt control the means of production. Rather, the people should. By people, I mean that could include a number of reasonably wealthy persons. But the most important part of that sentence was that there needs to be a number, not a few as it is today.

See, I have said that a free market would be the way to go, but only on one condition: a clean slate. New enterprise cannot thrive with the monopolistic practices as the few companies that control various industries. They need broken up. That way, competition will work, as anyone can be dethroned in short order. Also, the people running these small businesses would be closer to their core business, needing to understand how it works, rather than issuing commands from a boardroom half a world away. This is one of the reasons your business was successful, Bear. You understood it. You also viewed your employees as family. When you have thousands of them, they turn into expenses you want to try to get rid of so you can make more of a profit.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

I have worked in the Hospitality Industry since 90'. Primarily in hotels. Moved around in Wisconsin and also lived in Minneapolis.
As Bear mentioned, I was self employed for about 4 years. Had the chance to design, oversee the building, and run a hybrid cafe/coffee shop/restaurant.
http://www.madisonatoz.com/2007/05/grasshopper_caf.html

It was the worst of times it was the best of times.
Now I am back in Hotel world....trying to think of something else I can do to work for my self.....waiting for soncibabble to go viral:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-

So if anyone comes to Madison, let me know. Big discount! Sonicababble member exclusive!!:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-

[Madtown HD Junkie]

And as to working for yourself..... The perception (widely held in society)is one is instantly rewarded with copiously large banks accounts when they work for themselves. Those people should realize at some moments the check the owner receives often goes right back in.....and don't even get me started on the assinine amount of taxes which even small businesses have to shoulder. It was by far the largest shock seeing the layers and amounts of taxes.

I also stuck the thread and moved it to the Round Table - from politics.

[Hemi 6.1]

I'm a Log Home General contractor.
Been is business on my own since 2001
Its a fairly large /Small business.
I have currently 9 employees, and do an average of 20-30 homes per year all over NY, NJ and PA.
Also Do roofing,siding,remodeling and frame houses, as well as the occational Plumbing and electric.. But my main work is Log Homes.
My Guys make anywhere between $22,000-$59,000 per year. They all have Workmans comp, as well as medical insurance.


We have 5 Compmany Trucks
3 Chevy Express 3500 Vans.
1- 2005 With a 6.0L Gas
2- 2006 and 07 with 6.6 Duramax Diesels
1- 2009 Dodge Ram 3500 with 12 foot Dump Body With a Cummins 6.7
1- 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 with Yes a Hemi 5.7, ( Bosses Ride,,,, ME)
Since I've been in business, I've made a Low of $53,000 to a high of $212,000 per year Profit.
Business has brought in a low of $175,000 to a high of $501,000 without expenses.
My Taxes have been a low of $20,000 to a high of $42,000 per year.

I Own 2 houses, 1 is 4200 Square feet, the other is 2000 square feet.
Plus I have a 6000 Square foot Office,Garage,workshop.

I own 3 rental Buildings with 4 familys.
I make at most around $10,000 per year Profit off of these after all the taxes are paid and maintence.

I have a Wife and 2 daughters
Wife is a Middle School teacher.
Makes $47,000 per year with Full benifits
No pets.
Don't smoke. But Like a drink here and there.

My personal cars are Yes
Mostly Hemi's
2006 Dodge Charger SRT-8 with a 6.1 and some nice bolt on mods.
I Also bought my Friends 2008 Chrysler 300 c SRT-8 with Yes a Hemi 6.1 (He needed the money, and I loved the car)
2009 Chevy Silverado 3500 HD Dually 4 Door. 6.6 Duramax Diesel with 660 lb ft of torque. ( OH Yea) Tows my 12,000 lbs man lift,and my travel trailer.

Wifes Cars
2006 Grand Caravan SXT Stow and Go, with a 3.8L V6
2009 Cadillac CTS 3.6

Any Questions ,Feel free to ask.

[msmith198025]

I'm a Log Home General contractor.
Been is business on my own since 2001
Its a fairly large /Small business.
I have currently 9 employees, and do an average of 20-30 homes per year all over NY, NJ and PA.
Also Do roofing,siding,remodeling and frame houses, as well as the occational Plumbing and electric.. But my main work is Log Homes.
My Guys make anywhere between $22,000-$59,000 per year. They all have Workmans comp, as well as medical insurance.


We have 5 Compmany Trucks
3 Chevy Express 3500 Vans.
1- 2005 With a 6.0L Gas
2- 2006 and 07 with 6.6 Duramax Diesels
1- 2009 Dodge Ram 3500 with 12 foot Dump Body With a Cummins 6.7
1- 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 with Yes a Hemi 5.7, ( Bosses Ride,,,, ME)
Since I've been in business, I've made a Low of $53,000 to a high of $212,000 per year Profit.
Business has brought in a low of $175,000 to a high of $501,000 without expenses.
My Taxes have been a low of $20,000 to a high of $42,000 per year.

I Own 2 houses, 1 is 4200 Square feet, the other is 2000 square feet.
Plus I have a 6000 Square foot Office,Garage,workshop.

I own 3 rental Buildings with 4 familys.
I make at most around $10,000 per year Profit off of these after all the taxes are paid and maintence.

I have a Wife and 2 daughters
Wife is a Middle School teacher.
Makes $47,000 per year with Full benifits
No pets.
Don't smoke. But Like a drink here and there.

My personal cars are Yes
Mostly Hemi's
2006 Dodge Charger SRT-8 with a 6.1 and some nice bolt on mods.
I Also bought my Friends 2008 Chrysler 300 c SRT-8 with Yes a Hemi 6.1 (He needed the money, and I loved the car)
2009 Chevy Silverado 3500 HD Dually 4 Door. 6.6 Duramax Diesel with 660 lb ft of torque. ( OH Yea) Tows my 12,000 lbs man lift,and my travel trailer.

Wifes Cars
2006 Grand Caravan SXT Stow and Go, with a 3.8L V6
2009 Cadillac CTS 3.6

Any Questions ,Feel free to ask.

Whatcha bench?:p

Very descriptive

[Hemi 6.1]

Whatcha bench?:p

Very descriptive I can only Bench 325 lbs 4 times with a spotter.
But a Guy on my crew can do 445 lbs , Yea He's big.

[msmith198025]

I can only Bench 3255 lbs 4 times with a spotter.
But a Guy on my crew can do 425lbs

Only a little over a ton and a half huh huh? I remember those days. :free-happy-smileys-

[Hemi 6.1]

Those were the good ole days

[msmith198025]

So how is business these days hemi? Picking up?

[Hemi 6.1]

So how is business these days hemi? Picking up? Steady, May have a job in New Hampshire in April.
Got 4 contracts signed so far this year on new construction.
Plus 3 roof jobs and a few remodeling jobs.

[msmith198025]

Steady, May have a job in New Hampshire in April.
Got 4 contracts signed so far this year on new construction.
Plus 3 roof jobs and a few remodeling jobs.

Sounds good, glad to hear it.

[Blackhitachi]

I can only Bench 325 lbs 4 times with a spotter.
But a Guy on my crew can do 445 lbs , Yea He's big.:bow::bow::bow:
Wow both are great!:thumbup: I bench 495. I tried to get to 500 but i just can't so now i just do reps.

[elwaylite]

http://www.jimwalterresources.com/operationscenter/jwr.html

Work at a coal terminal handling export activities for JWR. We sell metallurgical coal to the international market for steel production.

Use to work in coal sampling and analyzing as a contractor, but it's much better to be on this side of the fence.

[Hemi 6.1]

:bow::bow::bow:
Wow both are great!:thumbup: I bench 495. I tried to get to 500 but i just can't so now i just do reps.Its a lot of work . The 200's are easy, Once you get past 300, 305 seems like adding another 50 LBS.
Its gets tough. My Goal is 350, Them I'm done :)
I can do 335 once. I want to be able to do 350 lbs 5 times.
May never happen.:augentreher:

[elwaylite]

Uh oh, I feel a bro-mance coming on ;)

[msmith198025]

Uh oh, I feel a bro-mance coming on ;)

:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-

[Blackhitachi]

Uh oh, I feel a bro-mance coming on ;):free-happy-smileys-:thumbup:

[Madtown HD Junkie]

:bow::bow::bow:
Wow both are great!:thumbup: I bench 495. I tried to get to 500 but i just can't so now i just do reps.

Well, at least if we rumble with another website we will be well represented!!!!

[Blackhitachi]

Well, at least if we rumble with another website we will be well represented!!!!:free-happy-smileys- You got that right!

[Bear Paws]

Its a lot of work . The 200's are easy, Once you get past 300, 305 seems like adding another 50 LBS.
Its gets tough. My Goal is 350, Them I'm done :)
I can do 335 once. I want to be able to do 350 lbs 5 times.
May never happen.:augentreher: Young whipper snappers. When you gonna get serious?? :rolleyes: When I was your age I could pick up a VW with one hand and change the tire with the other.. The rear tire. :making-fun-054:

Your rental properties... You buy those with creative financing or straight up..
Over the last 42 year I have owned upwards of I think about 50 properties. I still hold 4 at this point. two singles and two 3 families.. Never put down a nickle. Often walked out of closing with cash back.. I also prefer to sell them that way and hold paper. Often even first paper. I love teaching young couples how to buy no-money down and give them a place to start for their first home. I only made a couple mistakes but they where structured properly I never lost anything.

I built a couple "B" block dogs, 400 and 440, over the years but I preferred my FORD 302 and 351 Clevelands .First On Race Day... We used to twist the "Boss" 302s to 9800 at 535 hp.. In a circle...all night long. :)

[Hemi 6.1]

Over the last 42 year I have owned upwards of I think about 50 properties. I still hold 4 at this point. two singles and two 3 families.. Never put down a nickle. Often walked out of closing with cash back.. I also prefer to sell them that way and hold paper. Often even first paper. I love teaching young couples how to buy no-money down and give them a place to start for their first home. I only made a couple mistakes but they where structured properly I never lost anything.

. :) Bought 2 wth my own money, Both combind where less then
$275,000, The other I Paid For the property then, got a loan to erect a house. All 3 are now worth about 50% more then I paid for them , so I've really not lost a Penny.

[Scott Greczkowski]

My wife says I work a total of 5 jobs... (Although 2 of them I don't get paid for... infact I pay to do them... can you guess which ones?)

1) Work full time as a network administrator for a large Hartford company that does a lot of real estate and legal work as well as owns a number of broadcasting properties.

2) I run SatelliteGuys

3) I host the SatelliteGuys Radio Show which is a nationally syndicated radio show which airs on Tuesday Night's via the Access America Radio Network.

4) I work for DISH Network and am creating a new tech support forum for them

5) I write for MultiChannel News and my column is the most widely read regular feature of their site.

Then somehow I find time for my wife and 2 kids. :)

[vurbano]

Oh my look what the cat drug in. I guess its Scott's way of spreading the word about Ergen officially being his boss.

[msmith198025]

Or maybe he just wanted to post in the thread?

[vurbano]

Yes because know one knows ANYTHING about him. LOL

[Scott Greczkowski]

So Vurbano, the rumor is you work for the city of Newport News. What do you do? (Besides be cranky all day?) :D

[msmith198025]

Yes because know one knows ANYTHING about him. LOL
You do know that not everyone here is from satguys....right?

[vurbano]

So Vurbano, the rumor is you work for the city of Newport News. What do you do? (Besides be cranky all day?) :D

read the thread Chuckie Jr.:wink: Honestly Im still trying to figure out what isn't my job with the city. It is getting ridiculous with budget and manpower cuts yet spiraling EPA regulations.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

read the thread Chuckie Jr.:wink: Honestly Im still trying to figure out what isn't my job with the city. It is getting ridiculous with budget and manpower cuts yet spiraling EPA regulations.

City job? like 10a to 3p with 2 hour lunch? :free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:tongue:

[msmith198025]

City job? like 10a to 3p with 2 hour lunch? :free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:tongue:

Wouldnt that be nice?????

[HIFI]

City job? like 10a to 3p with 2 hour lunch? :free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:tongue:


Wouldnt that be nice?????That would be getting into overtime for you smith. :gueller: