National Lights Out Hour

[Scott Greczkowski]

Over at SatelliteGuys we had a member who got upset at us because we didn't participate in "National Lights Out Hour" last night

We could have shut the servers down for an hour or we could have changed the background black, but I didn't because doing that would have used more electricity then if we just kept things running.

Whats your take on this?

[cybok0]

The whole point is to save electricity. So you probably did the right thing.

I wounder if he turned his lights out.

BTW...IMO Global warming is a bunch of crap.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

He should have turned out the lights in his house. To expect websites to go down is crazy. Obviously we are much much smaller, but it never even crossed my mind.

[msmith198025]

I agree, he should have done his own part. Tell me, did he complain in his post during the time things "should" have been off?

[fallout2600]

The point was to turn your lights off, not to shut down the internet...

[msmith198025]

The point was to turn your lights off, not to shut down the internet...

Ahh, I did not keep up with it. I thought, as Cy said, it was to save electricity. Which not using the internet, or turning off electrical things would do.

[vurbano]

Over at SatelliteGuys we had a member who got upset at us because we didn't participate in "National Lights Out Hour" last night

We could have shut the servers down for an hour or we could have changed the background black, but I didn't because doing that would have used more electricity then if we just kept things running.

Whats your take on this?
Tell them to go suck it. I turned on xmas lights for the event.

[fallout2600]

Ahh, I did not keep up with it. I thought, as Cy said, it was to save electricity. Which not using the internet, or turning off electrical things would do.

Right, but to expect Scott to shut down his web servers...especially when turning them back on would pull a heavier load than just leaving them on...that's not saving electricity....

But yeah, the focus was to get everyone to turn off their lights for an hour at the same time to make a "Green" statement to the world.

[cybok0]

Right, but to expect Scott to shut down his web servers...especially when turning them back on would pull a heavier load than just leaving them on...that's not saving electricity....

But yeah, the focus was to get everyone to turn off their lights for an hour at the same time to make a "Green" statement to the world.

Oh, I thought it was to save electricity, since Scott said it would use more electricity to turn things off.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Yes by turning the servers off and then turning them back n would suck more power then by keeping them on the entire time. The spinup and booting process put more wear and tare and uses more energy then by keeping things running.

While I believe that we should protect the earth I also believe that most of this green planet crap is BS.

I find it funny that if want to destroy the Earth I can and alls I need to do is send Al Goes company a check and all will be forgiven. How silly is that?

[msmith198025]

Right, but to expect Scott to shut down his web servers...especially when turning them back on would pull a heavier load than just leaving them on...that's not saving electricity....

But yeah, the focus was to get everyone to turn off their lights for an hour at the same time to make a "Green" statement to the world.

I totally understand about turning off the servers, and using more by turning them back on. I did not mean scott should have shut down. Sorry I was not more clear

[cybok0]

Yes by turning the servers off and then turning them back n would suck more power then by keeping them on the entire time. The spinup and booting process put more wear and tare and uses more energy then by keeping things running.

While I believe that we should protect the earth I also believe that most of this green planet crap is BS.

I find it funny that if want to destroy the Earth I can and alls I need to do is send Al Goes company a check and all will be forgiven. How silly is that?

Kinda of like confession, do a sin, go to confession, all is forgiven.:free-happy-smileys-

[Madtown HD Junkie]

A confessional with a carbon tax

[cybok0]

The only confessional to be taxed.

[Bear Paws]

Over at SatelliteGuys we had a member who got upset at us because we didn't participate in "National Lights Out Hour" last night

We could have shut the servers down for an hour or we could have changed the background black, but I didn't because doing that would have used more electricity then if we just kept things running.

Whats your take on this? Probably a typical liberal....minding your business rather than his own....

He would have gone spastic at my place.. I turned every light on in the house and put my halogen 500w (5) work lights in a circle facing outward in my front yard aimed up at 45*. You probably could even see the glow in the sky from your house, Scott.:) if you had looked north east.
Just My little heretical protest over this lunacy perpetuated by the self proclaimed hieratic sacerdotal madness reminiscent of the Papal's condemnations of real science during the dark ages.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

I can picture it now Bear!!!
:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-

[fallout2600]

Go Bear! :free-happy-smileys-

[Bear Paws]

I can picture it now Bear!!!
:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys- My poor wife puts up with a lot.. She thought turning on the headlights of the cars was a little over the top.. I wish I could have pulled off a Danny Devito in "Deck the Halls" and been seen from space. Maybe next year.

[sundude90]

I am the person that got upset about this whole Earth Hour on Satelliteguys. But let me tell my story.

I didn't want Scott to turn off the servers for a hour, I know it's important to have them up and stuff, I am not stupid Scott.

I am not upset that you didn't do anything for it on the site, I am upset because some many people where being a bunch of jerks and pissing me off. Which reading the posts on this sites are starting to piss me off also, but whatever. And by the way I did turn my lights out, I actually turned off the main breaker for the whole house, not to brag.

To tell you the truth, I don't believe all of Global warming stuff, just some of it. I more believe in being Earth Friendly and green, by saving electricity where every possible, recycling, and not wasting the resources. So yes, some of this global warming stuff is total BS!

I just made to this post on Satelliteguys to be a friendly place to discuss what I believe, not for people to say and do thing just to be despiteful. I thought that is suppose to be a friendly place. What really upsets me, is how spread this around by posting it here and how he didn't listen to the post before his saying "Sorry for over reacting a bit, but I didn't appreciate everybody being mean. And how I felt about the whole global warming thing and that I wasn't upset with him for not turning of the servers or doing something for it" But he still had to post this and go and on about it.

Thank You & Sorry

[Bear Paws]

I am the person that got upset about this whole Earth Hour on Satelliteguys. But let me tell my story.

I didn't want Scott to turn off the servers for a hour, I know it's important to have them up and stuff, I am not stupid Scott.

I am not upset that you didn't do anything for it on the site, I am upset because some many people where being a bunch of jerks and pissing me off. Which reading the posts on this sites are starting to piss me off also, but whatever. And by the way I did turn my lights out, I actually turned off the main breaker for the whole house, not to brag.

To tell you the truth, I don't believe all of Global warming stuff, just some of it. I more believe in being Earth Friendly and green, by saving electricity where every possible, recycling, and not wasting the resources. So yes, some of this global warming stuff is total BS!

I just made to this post on Satelliteguys to be a friendly place to discuss what I believe, not for people to say and do thing just to be despiteful. I thought that is suppose to be a friendly place. What really upsets me, is how spread this around by posting it here and how he didn't listen to the post before his saying "Sorry for over reacting a bit, but I didn't appreciate everybody being mean. And how I felt about the whole global warming thing and that I wasn't upset with him for not turning of the servers or doing something for it" But he still had to post this and go and on about it.

Thank You & Sorry Evidently you where not around for The Great Pit Battle. To learn more go into the Pit archives and get illuminated. No pun intended. Or PM me.

[Zellio2008]

http://www.world-petroleum.org/education/ccb/02_files/2.jpeg

Liberals use the past 2,000 as an excuse to say global warming exists. They conviently leave out the last 100,000. We are in for another ice age soon, and should be burning as much carbon as possible right now to stay warm!

Al Gore is a douchebag. First he mentions cfls. Not only are they MORE harmful to the environment due to mercury, they don't save as much energy as LEDs.

And of course he lives like this:

http://bigtrousers.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/al-gore-desk.jpg

Which makes him a real hypocrite, of course liberals apparantly don't have a problem with him taking their money to live like this? They think he lives like this because all those monitors need to be on to save the world :augentreher::augentreher:

If you still believe in any form of Global Warming, consider that people are paid to give bullshit reasons why global warming exist.

Recently 31,000 scientists signed a petition saying they don't believe in global warming. Usually it takes a large number, because if you deny global warming exists you are BLACKLISTED and your funding is cut or taken away completely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAC4kfHruQ

[Bear Paws]

:clapclap::welcome:

[Scott Greczkowski]

There is a lot of scientific data that proves global warming is a hoax. The creator of the Weather Channel has even said its a sham.

If you want to take a look with a clear head at the scientific facts thre is a great resource of all the facts and figures with studies done by many well placed sources.

http://schnittshow.newsradio610.com/globalwarming.html

Now while I do believe that this entire global warming this is a scam, I also believe in leaving the world a better place then we arrived. In fact today I just planted two granny smith apple trees at my house. (I should note I purchased them a few weeks ago but it was too cold to plant them, the purchase had nothing to do with the turn off the lights hour.)

[froggigger]

Liberals use the past 2,000 as an excuse to say global warming exists. They conviently leave out the last 100,000. We are in for another ice age soon, and should be burning as much carbon as possible right now to stay warm...

...because if you deny global warming exists you are BLACKLISTED and your funding is cut or taken away completely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAC4kfHruQ

Very good first post. Don't be a stranger!:thumbup::thumbup:

[cybok0]

http://www.world-petroleum.org/education/ccb/02_files/2.jpeg

Liberals use the past 2,000 as an excuse to say global warming exists. They conviently leave out the last 100,000. We are in for another ice age soon, and should be burning as much carbon as possible right now to stay warm!

Al Gore is a douchebag. First he mentions cfls. Not only are they MORE harmful to the environment due to mercury, they don't save as much energy as LEDs.

And of course he lives like this:

http://bigtrousers.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/al-gore-desk.jpg

Which makes him a real hypocrite, of course liberals apparantly don't have a problem with him taking their money to live like this? They think he lives like this because all those monitors need to be on to save the world :augentreher::augentreher:

If you still believe in any form of Global Warming, consider that people are paid to give bullshit reasons why global warming exist.

Recently 31,000 scientists signed a petition saying they don't believe in global warming. Usually it takes a large number, because if you deny global warming exists you are BLACKLISTED and your funding is cut or taken away completely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAC4kfHruQ

Not all liberals believe in global warming.:026:

[sundude90]

There is a lot of scientific data that proves global warming is a hoax. The creator of the Weather Channel has even said its a sham.

If you want to take a look with a clear head at the scientific facts thre is a great resource of all the facts and figures with studies done by many well placed sources.

http://schnittshow.newsradio610.com/globalwarming.html

Now while I do believe that this entire global warming this is a scam, I also believe in leaving the world a better place then we arrived. In fact today I just planted two granny smith apple trees at my house. (I should note I purchased them a few weeks ago but it was too cold to plant them, the purchase had nothing to do with the turn off the lights hour.)

My opinion is that a little bit of this Global warming stuff is true. A very small bit of it is true I believe. The rest of it is total BS. I have looked at a lot of those studies and things, and some look so fake.

I am totally for saving our environment. I believe we should be lest pollutant and more green and all.

Thanks everyone!!

[Madtown HD Junkie]

welcome!

[msmith198025]

Welcome guys!

[cybok0]

:clapclap::welcome:


welcome!


Welcome guys!

:welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome:
Whew....That's a lot of welcomes...I have to take a nap.:sleep-052:

[stevenl]

Not all liberals believe in global warming.:026:

The smart ones do. :)

[stevenl]

http://www.world-petroleum.org/education/ccb/02_files/2.jpeg




Nice graph. I love how the temperature changes as the co2 levels change.. (kinda what those global warming people keep saying...) go figure

The dam graphs look almost identical.. co2 goes up.. So does temp.. co2 goes down.. So does temp..

[stevenl]

My opinion is that a little bit of this Global warming stuff is true. A very small bit of it is true I believe. The rest of it is total BS. I have looked at a lot of those studies and things, and some look so fake.

I am totally for saving our environment. I believe we should be lest pollutant and more green and all.

Thanks everyone!!



Welcome aboard btw :)

[cybok0]

The smart ones do. :)

No...the smart ones don't believe in mythical creatures or foolish hoaxes.

[Zellio2008]

Nice graph. I love how the temperature changes as the co2 levels change.. (kinda what those global warming people keep saying...) go figure

The dam graphs look almost identical.. co2 goes up.. So does temp.. co2 goes down.. So does temp..

The main issue is the CO2 levels change without man having a say in it.

They may be right about CO2 levels going up as temps go up, but EVERYTHING ELSE in their argument is BS.

In all honesty you don't need graphs. You don't even need intelligence to see their is no global warming.

With the rise of China, the last few years has had us burning CO2 like mad.

Okay, go outside this morning. I'm in ATLANTA GEORGIA, hotlanta, and outside right now is 35 degrees and it's 1 day from April!!

[HDRoberts]

The main issue is the CO2 levels change without man having a say in it.

They may be right about CO2 levels going up as temps go up, but EVERYTHING ELSE in their argument is BS.

This is essentially my opinion. Is there global warming EMPIRICALLY? Yes. Does mankind have anything to do with it? Not really. Climate has been changing long before the industrial revolution.

Does than mean we should keep burning oil and coal like crazy? No. Certainly they release other pollutants besides carbon dioxide. Plus, oil won't be around forever. And even with our massive coal reserves, that won't be around forever (not to mention the destructive processes to extract it). And with oil, we are forced to do business with unsavory countries. Thus, I still believe wind and solar are good to invest in.


Probably a typical liberal....minding your business rather than his own....

He would have gone spastic at my place.. I turned every light on in the house and put my halogen 500w (5) work lights in a circle facing outward in my front yard aimed up at 45*. You probably could even see the glow in the sky from your house, Scott.:) if you had looked north east.
Just My little heretical protest over this lunacy perpetuated by the self proclaimed hieratic sacerdotal madness reminiscent of the Papal's condemnations of real science during the dark ages.

Now this I disagree with. A lot of people were hoping that the lights out would afford an opportunity to observe the stars again. This is another reason I think we need to reduce the energy associated with nightime illumination: so we can enjoy the full majesty of the stars and our own Milky Way.


Remember, caring for the environment doesn't equate to global warming obsession.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

This is essentially my opinion. Is there global warming EMPIRICALLY? Yes. Does mankind have anything to do with it? Not really. Climate has been changing long before the industrial revolution.

Does than mean we should keep burning oil and coal like crazy? No. Certainly they release other pollutants besides carbon dioxide. Plus, oil won't be around forever. And even with our massive coal reserves, that won't be around forever (not to mention the destructive processes to extract it). And with oil, we are forced to do business with unsavory countries. Thus, I still believe wind and solar are good to invest in.



Now this I disagree with. A lot of people were hoping that the lights out would afford an opportunity to observe the stars again. This is another reason I think we need to reduce the energy associated with nightime illumination: so we can enjoy the full majesty of the stars and our own Milky Way.


Remember, caring for the environment doesn't equate to global warming obsession.

Boy that is true. Try using telescope anywhere but the woods. I am very much pro-environment, but, rabidly against global warming .

[cybok0]

Boy that is true. Try using telescope anywhere but the woods. I am very much pro-environment, but, rabidly against global warming .

Agreed.

I don't believe in global warming, but I don't think people should litter either on the streets, the water or anyplace else.

IMO litter is what is killing off wildlife, animals eating our trash, somethings just kill them.

Those plastic 6-pack holders will kill animals. Then the computer waste in foreign countries, that we send over kill people also.

[stevenl]

The main issue is the CO2 levels change without man having a say in it.

They may be right about CO2 levels going up as temps go up, but EVERYTHING ELSE in their argument is BS.

In all honesty you don't need graphs. You don't even need intelligence to see their is no global warming.

With the rise of China, the last few years has had us burning CO2 like mad.

Okay, go outside this morning. I'm in ATLANTA GEORGIA, hotlanta, and outside right now is 35 degrees and it's 1 day from April!!


Your right, co2 levels go up. Temp goes up.. The natural level of co2 goes up and down on its own. Guess what though? NOW mankind is pumping tons and tons of co2 into the sky as well, co2 that was locked up in the earth for thousands of years now all being released. So on top of the natural up and down of co2 we now have mankinds addition of co2. So what happens again when co2 levels go up? (the temp goes up) so now with the natural upswing of co2 add to that mankinds addition and now you get HOTTER THEN NORMAL avg tempatures..

We have agreed that co2 is a greenhouse gas, co2 is directly related to tempature (as per your graph) so now use common sense and see that with now mankind introducing so much co2 what will happen (what has happened)

And please dont use the 'its cold in X so global warming is false' argument. Because when it hits 110 in the summer in arizona what will be your excuse?

Also note anyone with half a brain knows that global warming will cause winters to be longer and harder. Yes warming causes cooling.

[fallout2600]

Your right, co2 levels go up. Temp goes up.. The natural level of co2 goes up and down on its own. Guess what though? NOW mankind is pumping tons and tons of co2 into the sky as well, co2 that was locked up in the earth for thousands of years now all being released. So on top of the natural up and down of co2 we now have mankinds addition of co2. So what happens again when co2 levels go up? (the temp goes up) so now with the natural upswing of co2 add to that mankinds addition and now you get HOTTER THEN NORMAL avg tempatures..

We have agreed that co2 is a greenhouse gas, co2 is directly related to tempature (as per your graph) so now use common sense and see that with now mankind introducing so much co2 what will happen (what has happened)

And please dont use the 'its cold in X so global warming is false' argument. Because when it hits 110 in the summer in arizona what will be your excuse?

Also note anyone with half a brain knows that global warming will cause winters to be longer and harder. Yes warming causes cooling.

How do you explain the fact that Earth has a natural process of cleaning the excess CO2 from the atmosphere with rain maintaining a natural warming/cooling cycle each year. How do you explain the lack of extreme "heat" we should experience when volcanoes erupt? You can't b/c humans don't control the Earth's internal clock and climate system. Bottom line, why worship a theory of man-made global warming that can't be proved?

[stevenl]

The same reason people worship god. I guess? Of course their are more facts to support global warming though then god but we know which billions believe..

The earth does have a natural cleaning system. But we are also destroying that. We are wiping our rainforests by alarming rates. We are not only pumping NEW co2 into the air at alarming rates we are also destroying earths filters..

[fallout2600]

The same reason people worship god.

That about sums it up...I takes a person divine faith to believe in man-made global warming...nice one!!! Thanks for proving my point!!! :free-happy-smileys-

[stevenl]

Except the differnce is as I pointed out. One has facts to back it up.

[msmith198025]

Except the differnce is as I pointed out. One has facts to back it up.

Where you see facts, I see unproven theories. The same as you feel about religion.

[stevenl]

His chart clearly shows facts. That as co2 goes up so does the temp. It is also fact that man puts into the atomosphere tons more co2 then normally would be. It also is fact that we are destroying earths filters.. WHat more facts do you need?

[msmith198025]

His chart clearly shows facts. That as co2 goes up so does the temp. It is also fact that man puts into the atomosphere tons more co2 then normally would be. It also is fact that we are destroying earths filters.. WHat more facts do you need?

I am not disputing the fact that temp and CO2 are related. As that chart shows, however, this is in line with cycles that the planet has gone through for over 400,000 years. So if we are doing it now, who did it then? The chart can be used to disprove the theories as much as prove them.

[fallout2600]

I am not disputing the fact that temp and CO2 are related. As that chart shows, however, this is in line with cycles that the planet has gone through for over 400,000 years. So if we are doing it now, who did it then?

That is the flaw in Al Gore's theory (he's only sampling a 100 years worth of data)....a true liberal will never answer that question.

[stevenl]

I am not disputing the fact that temp and CO2 are related. As that chart shows, however, this is in line with cycles that the planet has gone through for over 400,000 years. So if we are doing it now, who did it then? The chart can be used to disprove the theories as much as prove them.

You're not getting it are you? The earth produces a natural amount of co2. From valcanos, to cow farts. These increases make the tempature go up. (which you agree) Then the earth slowly filters them, there are slow periods with less valcano activity, etc and the co2 levels go down and the temp goes down..

But now with man in the mix, the cycle gets thrown off. Because over the last 100 years man has dumped so much co2 into the air and wiping out earths filters. So the natural process is now happening at a faster rate because of mans effect on the enviroment.

Its not about the natural cycles its about our affect on them. Do I believe its the end game, no. But to say we play no role is silly. Specially when we are dumping more and more co2 into the air each day. As the third world countries develop that number will only go up.

[stevenl]

That is the flaw in Al Gore's theory (he's only sampling a 100 years worth of data)....a true liberal will never answer that question.


I just did..

I dont recall anyone denying its natural cycles. But to deny that we are not affecting that cycle is insane. Theirs a reason why he samples 100 years... Because thats about the timeline of our industrial revolution and the biggest change in our producing ofco2

[msmith198025]

I just did..

I dont recall anyone denying its natural cycles. But to deny that we are not affecting that cycle is insane.

Then you did not answer it. How do you explain the previous cycles? You have said that facts support this one, what facts support the others?
Are you saying that the planet would not be having this cycle now if not for us?

Edit: I did not see your answer until after this was posted

[msmith198025]

You're not getting it are you? The earth produces a natural amount of co2. From valcanos, to cow farts. These increases make the tempature go up. (which you agree) Then the earth slowly filters them, there are slow periods with less valcano activity, etc and the co2 levels go down and the temp goes down..

But now with man in the mix, the cycle gets thrown off. Because over the last 100 years man has dumped so much co2 into the air and wiping out earths filters. So the natural process is now happening at a faster rate because of mans effect on the enviroment.

Its not about the natural cycles its about our affect on them. Do I believe its the end game, no. But to say we play no role is silly. Specially when we are dumping more and more co2 into the air each day. As the third world countries develop that number will only go up.


How do we know it is happening at a faster rate? The chart seems pretty consistant to me

[stevenl]

How do we know? Well its simple. We look at the chart and see ok X amount of co2 = Y amount of tempature gain. So we figure what the historical 'nautral' amount of co2 then figure in how much we are adding. Then we can look at the Z Amount of co2 (natural plus our addition) then we get the new tempature based on that.

[vurbano]

I am not disputing the fact that temp and CO2 are related. As that chart shows, however, this is in line with cycles that the planet has gone through for over 400,000 years. So if we are doing it now, who did it then? The chart can be used to disprove the theories as much as prove them.
Volcanoes and animals, One single eruption emits more CO2 than decades of mankind. http://globalwarminghoax.wordpress.com/2007/03/28/the-great-global-warming-swindle-complete/

[fallout2600]

A liberal will always stray from the question when presented with facts. Facts bounce off liberals like sun reflecting off of a white surface. They will just spin your question back on you, its a classic liberal response. We all know stevenl belongs to the Church of Al Gore, he admitted it early....its pointless to try and change his mind. He doesn't want to hear it, he wants to defend it blindly.

[stevenl]

Which question did I not answer?

[Derwin0]

And please dont use the 'its cold in X so global warming is false' argument. Because when it hits 110 in the summer in arizona what will be your excuse? I'd be worried if it didn't hit 110 in Arizona. :rolleyes:

[msmith198025]

I'd be worried if it didn't hit 110 in Arizona. :rolleyes:

Wow, how did I miss that line?

[stevenl]

I'd be worried if it didn't hit 110 in Arizona. :rolleyes:

That of course is the point. To say 'its cold gw is false' or 'its hot gw is real' is total bs, which is what I was pointing out.

[Derwin0]

That of course is the point. To say 'its cold gw is false' or 'its hot gw is real' is total bs, which is what I was pointing out.Depends. The onus is on the person making the claim something is happening, which means the global warming people have the onus to show actual proof.

[HDRoberts]

You're not getting it are you? The earth produces a natural amount of co2. From valcanos, to cow farts. These increases make the tempature go up. (which you agree) Then the earth slowly filters them, there are slow periods with less valcano activity, etc and the co2 levels go down and the temp goes down..

But now with man in the mix, the cycle gets thrown off. Because over the last 100 years man has dumped so much co2 into the air and wiping out earths filters. So the natural process is now happening at a faster rate because of mans effect on the enviroment.

Its not about the natural cycles its about our affect on them. Do I believe its the end game, no. But to say we play no role is silly. Specially when we are dumping more and more co2 into the air each day. As the third world countries develop that number will only go up.

So, if volcanoes and "cow farts" did it hundreds of thousands of years ago, why not now?

There is another problem with the chart. It shows only correlation NOT causation. In other words, how do we know there is not a single cause of both, like increased solar activity?

Plus, I love when we try to compare modern data based on atmospheric measurements to data collected from ice cores. The fact is, we only have 50-60 years of accurate and precise records.

I'm not saying humans have nothing to do with it, but our contribution is minute.

[stevenl]

The proof has been provided. If one ignores it their is nothing more that can be said.

[stevenl]

So, if volcanoes and "cow farts" did it hundreds of thousands of years ago, why not now?

There is another problem with the chart. It shows only correlation NOT causation. In other words, how do we know there is not a single cause of both, like increased solar activity?

Plus, I love when we try to compare modern data based on atmospheric measurements to data collected from ice cores. The fact is, we only have 50-60 years of accurate and precise records.

I'm not saying humans have nothing to do with it, but our contribution is minute.

The volcanos and cow farts are still going on (although way more cows now then before thanks to our harvesting of them) but thats the point. The Natural causes are still there. ADD to that our own output and there you have the faster then usual changes.

I only use that chart because that was what was brought up to say GW was false. When it fact it proved the point of the global warming people. That co2 = temp change.

Its real simple I dont know how any logical person can not see it. Lets do thiswith simple numbers..

Lets say 1ton of co2 equal 1degree of temp change.


lets say the avg temp is 100 and the co2 level is 10 with no humans. Thats the natural level. (cow farts, and volcanos) Now humans come along and start adding their co2. It may only be 1ton of co2 but now the level is 11 instead of 10. Which means a 1 degree change. So we have the natural levels of 10 with the added human levels.

No one is denying their are NATURAL causes for global climate change, the debate is rather or not humans are making that natural occurance worse.

[fallout2600]

No one is denying their are NATURAL causes for global climate change, the debate is rather or not humans are making that natural occurance worse.

No doubt that is the debate, and you can't supply one chart or report that shows the "human" effect is greater than the natural C02 releases of Mother Earth or that the human effect has any effect at all!!! Bring the proof if you want everyone to believe you...

[HDRoberts]

The volcanos and cow farts are still going on (although way more cows now then before thanks to our harvesting of them) but thats the point. The Natural causes are still there. ADD to that our own output and there you have the faster then usual changes.

Any solid proof of the emphasized section?

[stevenl]

Is it greater then natures input? No and no one is saying it is that I know of. But thats not the point. Humans do not have to produce more then nature. They just have to produce enough to make a difference. Also its not only the production of co2 its the removal of natures natural filteration systems.

[stevenl]

http://zfacts.com/p/194.html

[fallout2600]

Check out these powerpoints when you get time:

http://www.heartland.org/events/NewYork09/proceedings.html

[Carl]

holy thread...you guys like global warming huh?
I maybe a dem but I think it is a bunch of crap.

[msmith198025]

holy thread...you guys like global warming huh?
I maybe a dem but I think it is a bunch of crap.

Wow, I agree with Carl on something:05:

[cybok0]

Lmao!!!!