Huge iceberg drifting towards australia

[msmith198025]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091209/sc_afp/unclimatewarmingaustraliaantarctica


A monster iceberg nearly twice the size of Hong Kong island has been spotted drifting towards Australia in what scientists Wednesday called a once-in-a-century event.

Australian glaciologist Neal Young pinpointed the slab, which is some 19 kilometres (12 miles) long and about 1,700 kilometres south of the country, using satellite imagery.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20091209/capt.photo_1260348987302-1-0.jpg?

Twice the size of Hong Kong island. Wow!

[HD MM]

Yet some of you seem to think Global Warming doesn't exist. :augentreher:

[stevenl]

I heard I think it was beck say the ice berg was being powered by Polar bears.. They are pushing it toward Austrailia to punish us for global warming..

I tend to believe him.

[msmith198025]

Yet some of you seem to think Global Warming doesn't exist. :augentreher:

This is proof of it?

[brickmanDan]

Yet some of you seem to think Global Warming doesn't exist. :augentreher:

Your kidding right? Even after all the emails that were hacked and posted on the internet about how its all a hoax your still going to beleive it. Talk about koolaid drinker. sheesh.

[msmith198025]

Your kidding right? Even after all the emails that were hacked and posted on the internet about how its all a hoax your still going to beleive it. Talk about koolaid drinker. sheesh.

Well, global warming might be true, however I think MAN MADE global warming is a money grab hoax.

[brickmanDan]

Well, global warming might be true, however I think MAN MADE global warming is a money grab hoax.

That is a BIG "might" but Ill go along with that for now. I do not think man could ever destroy, no matter how hard he tried, the earth as we know it.

[msmith198025]

That is a BIG "might" but Ill go along with that for now. I do not think man could ever destroy, no matter how hard he tried, the earth as we know it.

Global warming AND global cooling are nothing more than natural planetary cycles throughout history IMHO.

[HD MM]

Tell yourselves whatever makes you sleep better at night. I still think Global Warming is real.

[msmith198025]

Tell yourselves whatever makes you sleep better at night. I still think Global Warming is real.

And you think it is man made correct? Completely?

[brickmanDan]

Tell yourselves whatever makes you sleep better at night. I still think Global Warming is real.

Did you not see or hear about those email dialogues between the top global warming scientist. Curious to know what you thought about them?

[msmith198025]

Did you not see or hear about those email dialogues between the top global warming scientist. Curious to know what you thought about them?

I wont speak for him, but many of the liberal people I talked to brushed it off as nothing.

[brickmanDan]

I wont speak for him, but many of the liberal people I talked to brushed it off as nothing.


Brushing it off must make them sleep better i guess.

[Bob Haller]

when the wall street wealthy get their feet wet getting to work suddenly it will be real.

we have killed lakes rivers and towns with pollution google donora pa.........

respect anything you dont fully understand

[msmith198025]

when the wall street wealthy get their feet wet getting to work suddenly it will be real.

we have killed lakes rivers and towns with pollution google donora pa.........

respect anything you dont fully understand

No one is saying dont respect the environment bob.

[Bear Paws]

Tell yourselves whatever makes you sleep better at night. I still think Global Warming is real.Oh dear... now what???
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1130_051130_ice_age.html "Chilling new evidence from the Atlantic Ocean is raising fears that western Europe could soon be gripped by a mini ice age."


Of course it has been warming. We are on the tail end of the last mini ice age that ended around 1850. WTF. The Hummer wasn't invented until 1984 as the Humvee and not made available to the general populus untill 1992. I would sooner believe in the Voodoo cult than the Gobal warming/climate/change Cult.

http://www.stanford.edu/~moore/history_health.html"History demonstrates that warmer is healthier. Since the end of the last Ice Age, the earth has enjoyed two periods that were warmer than the twentieth century. Archaeological evidence shows that people lived longer, enjoyed better nutrition, and multiplied more rapidly than during epochs of cold."
http://www.iceagenow.com/Monster_storm_stretching_from_California_through_N ew_England.htm
http://www.iceagenow.com/
Siberian Blast about to hit Europe and The Summit! (Copenhagen:free-happy-smileys-)

http://www.iceagenow.com/Monster_storm_(named Algore)stretching_from_California_through_New_Engl and.htm
Monster storm named Algore stretching from California through New England

[Bob Haller]

No one is saying dont respect the environment bob.

the people who claim is a natural event are really saying ignore the environment...........

a cleaner world is a better world....


encourage worldwide tree planting. begin with vacant land along highways and interstates

[msmith198025]

the people who claim is a natural event are really saying ignore the environment...........

a cleaner world is a better world....


encourage worldwide tree planting. begin with vacant land along highways and interstates

Bob, that is EXACTLY what I said, and in no way did I imply that we should not respect our environment. I can not help what you read into my comment.

I simply feel that man made global warming is a scam intended to push a certain political agenda designed to make alot of people rich.

Hey, im in the timber business, plant all the trees you can, more work for me in the future.

[Bear Paws]

the people who claim is a natural event are really saying ignore the environment...........

a cleaner world is a better world....


encourage worldwide tree planting. begin with vacant land along highways and interstates
No Bob, You gullible hysterical end-of-the-worlders are saying that.. Just because we don't hyperventilate every time that idiot grifter Algore opens his lying mouth doesn't mean we want dirty air or water. This GW discussion has nothing to do with pollution. Its about a common gas called CO2 that all oxygen breathing living things exhale and is the bases of our life form. Its probably the greatest hoax on mankind of a unprovable lie since Pharaohs proclaimed themselves Gods. Had the Egyptians given it a moments thought while paying their treasures and lives to building those tombs they might have asked how a God could bleed, live, and die like a mortal man.

PS CO2 That trees NEED to survive, Bob... God this debate is stupid. I can't believe after the great flat earth and the earth being the center of the universe debate we are still being sucked in by these hucksters and charlatans fear mongering in the 21st century.

[Bear Paws]

There was a time when scientists could be trusted and it was politicians we needed to keep a wary eye on.. Now it would appear the scientists are worse than the politicians.

[fallout2600]

There was a time when scientists could be trusted and it was politicians we needed to keep a wary eye on.. Now it would appear the scientists are worse than the politicians.

It is worse than that. The scientists are the politicians and the politicians are the scientists.

[fallout2600]

Also, how the hell does one deduct that an iceberg is headed for Aust? Does that iceberg have a f_cking guidance system or something?@?@? :augentreher::augentreher::augentreher:

[msmith198025]

Also, how the hell does one deduct that an iceberg is headed for Aust? Does that iceberg have a f_cking guidance system or something?@?@? :augentreher::augentreher::augentreher:

Lol, its drifting that way according to sat images

[fallout2600]

Lol, its drifting that way according to sat images

BREAKING NEWS: It has made a northern movement...now headed to Hawaii!!! :D

[Bear Paws]

It is worse than that. The scientists are the politicians and the politicians are the scientists.:gueller::hatsoff:

[msmith198025]

BREAKING NEWS: It has made a northern movement...now headed to Hawaii!!! :D

Damn! Man made global warming will doom us all!!!!:D

[towerclimber]

I think something is happening..I don't think that man has much to do with it.
I DO however believe that the Earth is going to do just what the heck it wants to, no matter who's opinion about who did what to whom.

I also want to say to Bob...dang man, you got Pwned!!! I notice that you just ignored all those facts that Bear Paws threw out there. Would you care to debate any of them?

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/towerclimber37/globalwarming.jpg

[Bear Paws]

Bob doesn't Debate. He only makes negative proclamations based on hysterical apocalyptic 1:1,000,000,000 odds of doom as probable certainties. His sole claim to fame is predicting a space shuttle disaster someday on the NASA internet site.. The Challenger and Columbia where his redeeming moments of glory of his broken clock being right.

He is a good hearted guy, he just lives in a world of terrific fear of doom and gloom. Often self inflicted by the paralysis of fear itself.... I have suggested he never stand on rail road tracks. The paralyzing fear of being hit by a train could be self fulfilling.

[Bob Haller]

funny, i like walking railroad tracks ever since i was a kid.

trouble is theres no clear 100% proof one way or the other.

given this we should respect dangers we dont fully understand....

big business / republicans are pro doing nothing......

just like the past evidence of tobacco harm to health and currently flak being put out to discourage health care reform.

big business drives our country:( and buys our legislators.

I kinda hope they do NOTHING on global warming, and see what your response is as all coastal areas get flooded

[DodgerKing]

Yet some of you seem to think Global Warming doesn't exist. :augentreher:
So huge icebergs have never broken off and drifted away from the polar regions in the past? Even the scientists are saying this is a once in a CENTURY event, not a first time event.

[DodgerKing]

Tell yourselves whatever makes you sleep better at night. I still think Global Warming is real.
It maybe real, but how much is caused by man and how much is part of a natural cycle?

Remember, the earth's climate has changed drastically, several times, over the last few billion years, going from hot, toxic, and dry, to frozen, to damp, humid, and warm, to many variations in between, long before man was around.

[msmith198025]

It maybe real, but how much is caused by man and how much is part of a natural cycle?

Remember, the earth's climate has changed drastically, several times, over the last few billion years, going from hot, toxic, and dry, to frozen, to damp, humid, and warm, to many variations in between, long before man was around.

Which is why I say this is part of the planetary cycle. And AGAIN Bob, I am not saying we shouldnt be respectful of our environment.

[Bob Haller]

well since we cant know the cause for sure, and excess CO MAY contribuite to it, and just the coastal flooding could be destating to our economy...........

its best to respect the possiblity, and do what we can to minimize the problem............

hey if its not a problem? what harm is done?

[Bear Paws]

well since we cant know the cause for sure, and excess CO MAY contribuite to it, and just the coastal flooding could be destating to our economy...........

its best to respect the possiblity, and do what we can to minimize the problem............

hey if its not a problem? what harm is done?CO2 has never been a problem in the past that anyone can show. In the past when CO2 increased it was the result of warming causing more life to flourish and to emit more CO2. As the planet cooled life receded and the cooler oceans locked up more CO2. Which brings us to one mystery.... With all that CO2 in the atmosphere, how could the earth have cooled to a Ice Age or even a Little Ice age???

Iceland, Greenland, Northern America and the Arctic Ocean as well as the Antarctic where tropical at one time..Where do you think all the oil came from in the Arctic Circle to lock up all that CO2.. So whats the possibility that now all of a sudden CO2 might be a problem..

[Bob Haller]

since no one knows, its best to respect such a risk.

and theres evidence of poles shifting in the past, obviously that isnt causing this now....

[towerclimber]

since no one knows, its best to respect such a risk.

and theres evidence of poles shifting in the past, obviously that isnt causing this now....

If there is indeed a global warming crisis, I would have to ask, why then are we in a 10 year cooling trend?
also, why would scientists cover up and otherwise muddy their climate programs to get what they want?
also, I have to ask how did the scientists completely MISS an iceberg the approximate size of California? they said it was a "glitch" in their equipment.
I think that their equipment as well as their methods are so full of errors as to make them untenable.
also they predicted an increase in hurricanes. how many have we had this year? 3? far less than the preceding years.
No, I think this is about money. money for grants, trillion dollar budgets for countries and political leverage.
Did you hear about the "9 significant inconsistencies" that were found in Al Gore's film?
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/towerclimber37/funny-pictures-bear-will-eliminate-.jpg

[HD MM]

It maybe real, but how much is caused by man and how much is part of a natural cycle?

Remember, the earth's climate has changed drastically, several times, over the last few billion years, going from hot, toxic, and dry, to frozen, to damp, humid, and warm, to many variations in between, long before man was around.

I'm no scientist, so I can't give you percentages, but I do believe the effects of GW is both man and naturally caused.

[Derwin0]

Remember, the earth's climate has changed drastically, several times, over the last few billion years, going from hot, toxic, and dry, to frozen, to damp, humid, and warm, to many variations in between, long before man was around.
Didn't you know, it was the earlier verisons of the SUV's that caused those.
http://www.automotogadgets.com/images/flintstones_car.jpg

[HD MM]

The bottom line is this: human waste is polluting our waters, land & air.

Whether or not admissions are blowing a hole in our O-Zone and creating warmer temperatures is one topic. This seems to be a simple topic the naysayers look at to point out how frivolous the topic is at all. That is until you look at the bigger picture...

What I'm most concerned about is the human caused pollution that has negative effects on our ecosystem (both physical and biological components). Such a blow to our ecosystem isn't healthy or natural for the continuation of nature in it's original form. There's only so much adaptation the Earth can take before it effects the flow of the food chain. Everything in life is based on the way food energy flows from one organism to the next and to the next and so on. Once any one thing in that chain is effected (by pollution or GW), we are all screwed.

[Bear Paws]

. There's only so much adaptation the Earth can take before it effects the flow of the food chain. Everything in life is based on the way food energy flows from one organism to the next and to the next and so on. Once any one thing in that chain is effected (by pollution or GW), we are all screwed. And there lies the adaptation of the earth to a larger population. A natural increase in Global temperature to increase food growth.. According to some fear mongers during the 60s the world was going to starve by 2000 due to the population increase. Not only did that not happen but neither did the Y2K fiery flood..

I was listening to a top computer programmer with my wife whom is also a top programmer, analyst, tester and designer. My wife finally understood and agreed how the GW computer models failed to predict this last 11 years of cooling..They used the model to design the program.http://www.theminorityreportblog.com/blog_entry/lowdowncentralmr/2009/11/04/research_proves_global_warming_models_wrong

The people making these computer models insert the known facts. They also insert various assumptions of how these facts will interact with one another, coming up with what they hope will be a model of the climate that will produce accurate predictions. Those assumptions mean everything, and now the research proves that they are wrong. And not just a little wrong. It turns out that the assumptions are exactly backwards.

At the risk of using a dated computer expression, don't forget that it's still true that Garbage In = Garbage Out (GIGO).

The difference of 1 degree off on a compass is the difference of landing in England or in Cape Town South Africa.

[vurbano]

Tell yourselves whatever makes you sleep better at night. I still think Global Warming is real.

It is and its part of a natural cycle. We are nothing more than a gnat on a horses a@@ with little means to affect nature.

[Bob Haller]

The bottom line is this: human waste is polluting our waters, land & air.

Whether or not admissions are blowing a hole in our O-Zone and creating warmer temperatures is one topic. This seems to be a simple topic the naysayers look at to point out how frivolous the topic is at all. That is until you look at the bigger picture...

What I'm most concerned about is the human caused pollution that has negative effects on our ecosystem (both physical and biological components). Such a blow to our ecosystem isn't healthy or natural for the continuation of nature in it's original form. There's only so much adaptation the Earth can take before it effects the flow of the food chain. Everything in life is based on the way food energy flows from one organism to the next and to the next and so on. Once any one thing in that chain is effected (by pollution or GW), we are all screwed.

having had aquariums for most of my life..

they can be in ecological balance, the right number of fish in the gallons you have, with enough plants and biological action to keep things clean.

exceed any of these like too many fish or overfeed them and the balance gets out of balance, disease and other bad things occur.

our planet has big resources, but were dumping in way too many toxins.

this may explain some of the latest wierd diseases.....

[msmith198025]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/copenhagen/article6956783.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093


Mr Gore, speaking at the Copenhagen climate change summit, stated the latest research showed that the Arctic could be completely ice-free in five years.

In his speech, Mr Gore told the conference: “These figures are fresh. Some of the models suggest to Dr [Wieslav] Maslowski that there is a 75 per cent chance that the entire north polar ice cap, during the summer months, could be completely ice-free within five to seven years.”

However, the climatologist whose work Mr Gore was relying upon dropped the former Vice-President in the water with an icy blast.

“It’s unclear to me how this figure was arrived at,” Dr Maslowski said. “I would never try to estimate likelihood at anything as exact as this.”

Mr Gore’s office later admitted that the 75 per cent figure was one used by Dr Maslowksi as a “ballpark figure” several years ago in a conversation with Mr Gore.
No, they are not trying to over state and spin this out to be worse than it is. Not at all....why would anyone question the "facts"?

[Derwin0]

this may explain some of the latest wierd diseases.....
because of course there have never been bad diseases in the past (leprosy, bubonic plague, spanish flu, polio, smallpox, etc...)

[vurbano]

There was a time when scientists could be trusted and it was politicians we needed to keep a wary eye on.. Now it would appear the scientists are worse than the politicians.

They are the new politicians. The rulers of this world now bribe them to say whatever they need them to say to make policy and control the people even more. its a requirement of a socialist state. Obama is using these scientists to take our rights away. Soon the scientists will come to the conclusion that we must control the number of people on this planet. There will be forced abortions and widespread euthanasia, death panels, forced killing of the elderly etc. Anyone watched Logans run? It outlines Obama's health care plan and how he will eventually have to control costs. If you here the word "Carousel".. run... Or if Obama wants to implant a GPS chip in you....wait he already does.......... hmmm... wonder what thats really for.

[Bob Haller]

They are the new politicians. The rulers of this world now bribe them to say whatever they need them to say to make policy and control the people even more. its a requirement of a socialist state. Obama is using these scientists to take our rights away. Soon the scientists will come to the conclusion that we must control the number of people on this planet. There will be forced abortions and widespread euthanasia, death panels, forced killing of the elderly etc. Anyone watched Logans run? It outlines Obama's health care plan and how he will eventually have to control costs. If you here the word "Carousel".. run... Or if Obama wants to implant a GPS chip in you....wait he already does.......... hmmm... wonder what thats really for.

obama has a prime focus goal eradicate all bigots.

the germans have offered the use of dacha, seems they maintained the gas chambers in case of future need. there a DNA test for bigotry:(

verb why are they knocking at your door?

truly your post is scary that anyone would believe it? just like mine? obviously your joking around? you cant be serious

[towerclimber]

Bob, I believe the correct spelling is Dachau.

Have you ever been there? or Auschwitz? I have. I've also seen folks so starved and destroyed that they looked like those folks.
children too weak to shoo flies away. men, hiding in their homes, peeking out through windows, afraid that you'll come in and take them..or worse, take their families.
You should see the relief in their eyes when they find you've come to protect them and help them.
No man should be that way. And children? they usually suffer first and most.
I remember a woman. kurdish, she was.
they brought her and her 1 year old baby in to an aid station we'd set up. she was shot running away from Hussein's republican guard.
the round went into her back, deflected off her scapula (shoulder blade) and went through her lung and exited her body.
it didn't stop there. it went into her baby's stomach and lodged there.
I'm willing to bet that you've never heard a mother wail as she watches her child die, when even that act of emotion would kill her.
I saw a man, shot in the stomach. they brought him to us in a taxi. when they removed the blanket to show us that he was unarmed and wounded, you could see the flies feasting on his blood at the entry wound. the smell was horrible, as are most all stomach wounds when the intestines have been compromised.
These are but 2 of the memories that I'll carry with me all the days of my life. 2 moments out of 10 years in the infantry, in combat units. 2 wars, 8 other serious skirmishes.

You sit there, smugly speaking of a GD aquarium.
I will refrain from personal attacks as I promised...but I don't think very much of your humanity. Then again, perhaps you're simply ignorant of what you speak of..I assure you, I am not. I know how these people want to build your "new world".
Should the time come, I'll kill as many as I can before I go down.
The definition of a bigot is this : a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race. It has it's origins in the French language and the root of this English word means "by God" in French.

In this respect, I'm one of those bigots our president has a mission to eradicate. I don't get upset at other religions, politics? my best friend is a dyed in the wool liberal democrat. race? heh..he's also a black man. I love him more than a few of my own blood kin, and his family.
I won't see my freedoms taken though. in that respect, I'm a bigot. I won't live to see the day when they come and take his son to be forcibly sterilized, or when they come to kill him because he's too old to work. More realistically, I won't see the day when I have to watch his wife, or worse, I myself have to petition some panel of people in order to get medical help for one of us.
Or have them fine me for not buying something from the government. They're welcome to go to hell, and if you think its right, you're welcome to join them.


I will pose to you a question, mr. bob. Are you willing to do what you advocate? are you willing to take a woman's child and kill it?
are you willing to perform that surgery on a man who is unwilling? Kill women and children? are you willing to destroy the "breeders"?

If you're not willing to wield the knife yourself or have it done to you, then I suggest you rethink your position, because you just might get what you asked for.
and keep in mind that things aren't all sanitary in your egalitarian world. It's quite ugly. very messy. Lots of blood and things that you just can't get out of your clothes.

I await your answer.

[Bear Paws]

having had aquariums for most of my life..

they can be in ecological balance, the right number of fish in the gallons you have, with enough plants and biological action to keep things clean.

exceed any of these like too many fish or overfeed them and the balance gets out of balance, disease and other bad things occur.

our planet has big resources, but were dumping in way too many toxins.

this may explain some of the latest wierd diseases.....
Try to put this into perspective, Bob. 15 years ago I built a 45,000 gallon fish pond in my front yard. Deep end is 5ft. Its EPDM (rubber) lined. If you recall...Last year I posted some pictures over in The Pit to show off the huge Lotus Blossoms.

Getting to the point. I do nothing to the pond. Nothing. Not even add water for evaporation or transpiration from the vegetation. The rain, snow etc keeps it full and overflowing. Its completely in balance by itself. I run no pumps or filter except for a fountain for aesthetics (I suppose it helps areate) ...I planted a few water lilies and a couple Lotus plants initially before I introduced 10 feeder gold fish and a few shibumkins. During the summer I got stuff growing in there covering most of the water and the edges I never knew existed. I have cat tail and water irises around the edges I never planted....And the 300 (est) fish, some are a 12-14 inches or larger. I got frogs, toads, snails, turtles, and dragon fly. Its so noisy in the spring we close the windows on that side...The giant Koi (18-20) got stolen by a unknown critter. Possibly Hawk, Eagle, or Blue heroin. We see them all the time. I had 5 to start with from babies. Maybe something discovered they are friendly and will come and eat from your fingers if they see you or splash. They would even come up to scare the hell out of the nosy cat. I feed them only in the spring at ice out only because I want to and when I have company and they want to "see" the fish... They really don't need it.

No ducks. They land a bit, look around and continue on. No suitable shelter on land for the little ones. Just as well. They might throw off the balance with their poop.

[HD MM]

Try to put this into perspective, Bob. 15 years ago I built a 45,000 gallon fish pond in my front yard. Deep end is 5ft. Its EPDM (rubber) lined. If you recall...Last year I posted some pictures over in The Pit to show off the huge Lotus Blossoms.

Getting to the point. I do nothing to the pond. Nothing. Not even add water for evaporation or transpiration from the vegetation. The rain, snow etc keeps it full and overflowing. Its completely in balance by itself. I run no pumps or filter except for a fountain for aesthetics (I suppose it helps areate) ...I planted a few water lilies and a couple Lotus plants initially before I introduced 10 feeder gold fish and a few shibumkins. During the summer I got stuff growing in there covering most of the water and the edges I never knew existed. I have cat tail and water irises around the edges I never planted....And the 300 (est) fish, some are a 12-14 inches or larger. I got frogs, toads, snails, turtles, and dragon fly. Its so noisy in the spring we close the windows on that side...The giant Koi (18-20) got stolen by a unknown critter. Possibly Hawk, Eagle, or Blue heroin. We see them all the time. I had 5 to start with from babies. Maybe something discovered they are friendly and will come and eat from your fingers if they see you or splash. They would even come up to scare the hell out of the nosy cat. I feed them only in the spring at ice out only because I want to and when I have company and they want to "see" the fish... They really don't need it.

No ducks. They land a bit, look around and continue on. No suitable shelter on land for the little ones. Just as well. They might throw off the balance with their poop.

Do you dump toxic waste into that aquarium of yours too? Does it "survive" that?

What I'm getting at is our larger bodies of water aren't as "natural" as your homemade aquarium.

[Bear Paws]

[QUOTE]Bob,
You sit there, smugly speaking of a GD aquarium.
I will refrain from personal attacks as I promised...but I don't think very much of your humanity. Then again, perhaps you're simply ignorant of what you speak of..I assure you, I am not. I know how these people want to build your "new world".
Like I said elsewhere. It appears you and I where in the same places in different locations at different times. Its frustrating as hell to listen to these people sometimes but it is what we fought for. That is....Their right to be free and stupid..(ignorant)

My biggest problem with most of these leftists, especially the fascist leftists, in their misguided quest for Marxist utopia is they would willingly give up what they take for grated, the freedoms they enjoy, because they don't know what its like to be without freedom. They never have been without freedom...never known people without freedom...never seen how the Marxists and Fascists take away freedom ...never helped someone find freedom...never saw or felt the joy in freedom.

They think being free is somehow un-American and giving up their and your freedoms that others fought and died for is somehow being "American".

A (very) little about me..
http://www.sonicbabble.com/forums/showthread.php?p=42539&highlight=Bolling#post42539

[vurbano]

obama has a prime focus goal eradicate all bigots.

the germans have offered the use of dacha, seems they maintained the gas chambers in case of future need. there a DNA test for bigotry:(

verb why are they knocking at your door?

truly your post is scary that anyone would believe it? just like mine? obviously your joking around? you cant be serious

are you calling me a bigot?

[Bob Haller]

are you calling me a bigot?

you openly admitted to it many times........

my sarchastic post is as miss guided as yours.

neither could be really whats going on

[Bob Haller]

We all live in a aquarium of sorts. pollute it too much and bad things happen.

the miss guided are those who feel the earth can fix anything we do.

well it may respond by decreasing our population dramatically.

just like a aquarium the earth may reach its carrying abilty limit

[towerclimber]

We all live in a aquarium of sorts. pollute it too much and bad things happen.

the miss guided are those who feel the earth can fix anything we do.

well it may respond by decreasing our population dramatically.

just like a aquarium the earth may reach its carrying ability limit

This isn't an aquarium "of sorts".
This is our home. it's a very complex ecosystem. And yes, if we do anything to upset the earth I feel sure it will right itself. I simply don't think that we've done that to the point where it's going to change the earth in such a dramatic fashion.
the same NASA scientist that is preaching global warming, was preaching a coming ice age in the 70's. The very scientist that Al Gore quoted as saying the ice cap would melt in the summers within 5 years stood up and refuted what he said in front of everyone.
Many other scientists are saying there's something wrong with these computations and the very program that the global warming scientists were using was found to be programed to say just exactly what they wanted it to say.

Show me some data that isn't skewed. give me something that is 100% accurate.
we pilot always, into an unknown future. the surest way to know which course to take is to look at the facts. actual facts.
forget what the stars foretell, ignore what the neighbors think, get the facts.

[Bear Paws]

Do you dump toxic waste into that aquarium of yours too? Does it "survive" that?

What I'm getting at is our larger bodies of water aren't as "natural" as your homemade aquarium. I don't intentionally, however toxins do get in. In proportions relitive to its size it is self cleansing.

I have accidentally spilled paint thinner and paint in it as well as bee killer spray to eradicate a yellow jacket hive in the edge stones. My wife dropped my gas powered weed whacker in the pond and I had to "snorkel" to retrieve it. There are no toxins foreign to the earth that it can't deal with.. . Not all waste is toxic in every case. There are living creatures and fish living in sulfur smoke stacks "smokers" on the sea floor

My point in referring to my pond was exactly to illustrate that larger bodies of water are more "natural" and self balancing. Once I built it I don't need to do anything like Bob does to keep his in "balance".

[towerclimber]

[quote=towerclimber;54162]
Like I said elsewhere. It appears you and I where in the same places in different locations at different times. Its frustrating as hell to listen to these people sometimes but it is what we fought for. That is....Their right to be free and stupid..(ignorant)

My biggest problem with most of these leftists, especially the fascist leftists, in their misguided quest for Marxist utopia is they would willingly give up what they take for grated, the freedoms they enjoy, because they don't know what its like to be without freedom. They never have been without freedom...never known people without freedom...never seen how the Marxists and Fascists take away freedom ...never helped someone find freedom...never saw or felt the joy in freedom.

They think being free is somehow un-American and giving up their and your freedoms that others fought and died for is somehow being "American".

A (very) little about me..
http://www.sonicbabble.com/forums/showthread.php?p=42539&highlight=Bolling#post42539

I didn't have quite the glamorous (read dangerous) job you did. I was simply a grunt.
My first unit was 2nd armored cavalry regiment, outside of a little town named Beyreuth, in FRG. Our mission was to patrol the border between E. Germany, W. Germany and the Czech. republik.
We transitioned from m113's to the bradley fighting vehicle about a month after I got there.
I did that from 89 till the wall fell. after that, My unit went to Desert shield/storm/op. provide comfort.
After that, we rotated back to germany, furled our colors and redeployed back to the US. I left the unit then and went to FT. Hood, Tx, to B Co. 2/7 Cav. by that time I managed to get a slot as a bradley gunner and when not training on the bradley I was riding herd on a squad of soldiers. eventually I got my own bradley and my own squad of knuckleheads. They were the meanest, fastest, hardest drinking Aholes that I ever knew. I also knew that I could count on my boys to get the job done.
In between garrison and training duty we went where they told us.
My german is good enough to carry on a conversation and do the crossword puzzle. My arabic is good enough to get my point across.
You're very right about the ignorance part.
Our countrymen have been coddled. they're far too soft. They will learn though..and folks like you and I will pay the price for their education.
and here's a couple of pictures to bring back old times..

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/towerclimber37/eastgermanborderguardshofsector2.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/towerclimber37/campmay.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/towerclimber37/Johnwithguns.jpg

[Skyhi]

And yes, if we do anything to upset the earth I feel sure it will right itself.




My point in referring to my pond was exactly to illustrate that larger bodies of water are more "natural" and self balancing. Once I built it I don't need to do anything like Bob does to keep his in "balance".
The planet will ALWAYS be fine and balanced. It is much "bigger" than us. The problem I worry about is that the planet may deem it necessary to eliminate mankind to maintain its balance.

[NickG420]

The planet will ALWAYS be fine and balanced. It is much "bigger" than us. The problem I worry about is that the planet may deem it necessary to eliminate mankind to maintain its balance.

You watch to many M. Night Shyamalan movies :rolleyes:

[vurbano]

you openly admitted to it many times........

my sarchastic post is as miss guided as yours.

neither could be really whats going on

its yes or no BOB.

[Bear Paws]

[QUOTE=towerclimber;54238]

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/towerclimber37/eastgermanborderguardshofsector2.jpg

That could almost be a picture of one of our "border crossing" areas. We did go over the "fence" a lot also as well as forged papers at check points.

The one event I sadly missed was seeing in person the wall come down. Most don't know this but It started in Hungary at the Austrian border when the Hungarians tore down the barbed wire fence.. I used to bring a lot of my assets through Hungary into Austria for their escape...to freedom..These ignoramuses that wish for Socialism just can't imagine the joy these people had when they knew they where finally free....I still get misty..

Hungary was the easiest to travel into and out of. From Russia or Austria. I knew it was going to happen. Especially when Pres.George H Bush went to Budapest. I just couldn't get away to go over. But I was still so happy I lived to see it happen after all those years of struggle.

[towerclimber]

The planet will ALWAYS be fine and balanced. It is much "bigger" than us. The problem I worry about is that the planet may deem it necessary to eliminate mankind to maintain its balance.

hey, don't worry, your polar bears will live:Shh:

I'd be concerned if I actually believed any of the data that has been given. these nutball scientists haven't gotten it right since the 1970s..why would they get it right now?

I figure it's like this...if a weatherman can't predict with any accuracy, what the weather will be like in 2 weeks, what makes you think that a scientist can predict it with any accuracy in 2 to 10 years??

[Skyhi]

I figure it's like this...if a weatherman can't predict with any accuracy, what the weather will be like in 2 weeks, what makes you think that a scientist can predict it with any accuracy in 2 to 10 years??
Because Meteorology and Climatology are Apples and Oranges.

[towerclimber]

Because Meteorology and Climatology are Apples and Oranges.

mayhap so..and they're both about as accurate.
which is to say that they couldn't hit the barn if they were shooting it from the inside.

[Skyhi]

mayhap so..and they're both about as accurate.
which is to say that they couldn't hit the barn if they were shooting it from the inside.I completely disagree with you regarding meteorology. I have been actively following the weather since I was a little kid. I am currently very active on a few meteorology message board where different computer models are dissected and discussed.

The accuracy is pretty amazing. The recent blizzard in the Midwest showed on ALL the major computer models 15 days before the event. The exact track is tough to nail down until a few days out, but the models are remarkable in predicting the existence of a yet-to-be formed storm.

I would *guess* that climatology computer models have improved in the same way meteorological ones have.

[fallout2600]

I completely disagree with you regarding meteorology. I have been actively following the weather since I was a little kid. I am currently very active on a few meteorology message board where different computer models are dissected and discussed.

The accuracy is pretty amazing. The recent blizzard in the Midwest showed on ALL the major computer models 15 days before the event. The exact track is tough to nail down until a few days out, but the models are remarkable in predicting the existence of a yet-to-be formed storm.

I would *guess* that climatology computer models have improved in the same way meteorological ones have.

That's a big statement. I believe weather once over land is easier to predict. Hurricane models haven't improved in over 10 years. They are still using the same models and anything more than a 1.5 to 2 day forecast is worthless. Also, their intensity forecast models still suck, the only way they determine hurricane intensity is by flying an airplane thru it.

[Skyhi]

That's a big statement. I believe weather once over land is easier to predict. Hurricane models haven't improved in over 10 years. They are still using the same models and anything more than a 1.5 to 2 day forecast is worthless. Also, their intensity forecast models still suck, the only way they determine hurricane intensity is by flying an airplane thru it.

I don't really follow hurricane forecasting.......I do know that they can look at a few clouds off the coast of Africa and fairly accurately predict whether it will turn into a tropical storm.

The models are *very* good of predicting if an area of low pressure will form in the CONUS a few weeks in advance. Obviously its not perfect, and the computers have trouble with tracks (thus people frequently cursing their local mets), but the accuracy of the computers on a large scale is pretty amazing.

[towerclimber]

If they're so accurate, tell me then why they predict rain and none comes? I know, I work outside..my job requires that I stay aware of the weather since, if you get struck by lightning on a tower, it's not very good.
I follow the weather too and not just the weather in one neighborhood. I follow it in different parts of the country and I can tell you..most weather forecasters may as well be using bones instead of computers.
if they were accurate they wouldn't use percentages to tell you if it's going to rain.

[stevenl]

The % is not to say "Hey Mr. Tower yoiu have a 20% chance of rain where you are" Its "Hey there is a 20% chance of rain in our viewing area" It may not rain where you are but a city over it might. The higher the % the larger area the rain will effect thus more people being effected.

[Skyhi]

If they're so accurate, tell me then why they predict rain and none comes? I know, I work outside..my job requires that I stay aware of the weather since, if you get struck by lightning on a tower, it's not very good.
I follow the weather too and not just the weather in one neighborhood. I follow it in different parts of the country and I can tell you..most weather forecasters may as well be using bones instead of computers.
if they were accurate they wouldn't use percentages to tell you if it's going to rain.
Models cannot predict precisely where a T-Storm is going to occur (esp. ones not related to a frontal passage). They do a good job of predicting that a T-storm is going to occur within a 75 mile radius of point A.

[Skyhi]

The % is not to say "Hey Mr. Tower yoiu have a 20% chance of rain where you are" Its "Hey there is a 20% chance of rain in our viewing area" It may not rain where you are but a city over it might. The higher the % the larger area the rain will effect thus more people being effected.
Bingo!

[towerclimber]

suuuure.
doesn't matter, You trust the weatherman, I'll get on the internet and use doppler radar to make sure.
and climatology? not as accurate simply because the moonbats that made those programs? they made the programs so that they would say the earth is warming..no matter what it was really doing. That's what climategate is all about.

[Derwin0]

Topography has a lot to do with accuracy as well. The midwest is fairly flat and away from the ocean, so easier to predict for.

Here in Central PA, it's usually a guess.
A couple weeks ago, the weather guy actually said we could get up to 2 1/2" of snow or nothing, I got 4".
We have mountains to the west, and an ocean to the east, both of which play havok with any weather prediction.

[fallout2600]

I don't really follow hurricane forecasting.......I do know that they can look at a few clouds off the coast of Africa and fairly accurately predict whether it will turn into a tropical storm.

The models are *very* good of predicting if an area of low pressure will form in the CONUS a few weeks in advance. Obviously its not perfect, and the computers have trouble with tracks (thus people frequently cursing their local mets), but the accuracy of the computers on a large scale is pretty amazing.

If the models that predicted future climate were "very" good, then explain to me why they forecast an above average hurricane season for 2009 and at best the season well BELOW average????

Computer models are coded to examine a data set and use human algorithms to predict. The data sets don't include anything near a complete set of data of the atmosphere. It is merely a guess at hard coding a phenomenon of the universe with binary code....The best they can do is 2-3 days out at BEST with any scenario.

[Skyhi]

If the models that predicted future climate were "very" good, then explain to me why they forecast an above average hurricane season for 2009 and at best the season well BELOW average????

Computer models are coded to examine a data set and use human algorithms to predict. The data sets don't include anything near a complete set of data of the atmosphere. It is merely a guess at hard coding a phenomenon of the universe with binary code....The best they can do is 2-3 days out at BEST with any scenario.
Meteorological models aren't perfect. The farther out they go, the more error you'll encounter. Hurricane season forecasts are made pretty far in advance.

To say the best they can do is 2-3 days out simply isn't true.

[fallout2600]

Meteorological models aren't perfect. The farther out they go, the more error you'll encounter. Hurricane season forecasts are made pretty far in advance.

To say the best they can do is 2-3 days out simply isn't true.

Then how many days out do you feel they can accurately predict the climate and/or weather systems?

[Skyhi]

Then how many days out do you feel they can accurately predict the climate and/or weather systems?
Well Climate (long term) and weather systems are two different things. I pay little attention to Climatology, so I have no idea. As far as weather goes, nothing is 100% and the farther out you get, the less accurate you are.

Last week, I could have told you that Christmas Eve/Day and the following week will feature below average temperature for the Northern 2/3rds of the Country west of the Rockies. Low Pressure centers will generally run along the gulf states and up the east coast. Multiple states in the Midwest/Ohio Valley/Great lakes will receive measurable snow on Christmas Eve or Christmas day.

All of these features were showing up last week and they still look likely today. Remember this thread in 1-2 weeks and see how much I got right.

[Skyhi]

Get ready for some rough weather in parts of Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, & Iowa next week. Michigan, Indiana, & Ohio could be in play too....
I made this post over at SatGuys a week before the major Blizzard that hit the midwest earlier this month. A week out, the models were off on the rain/snow line by 100 miles, but they were spot on in predicting a major storm (before it had even formed).

[fallout2600]

Well Climate (long term) and weather systems are two different things. I pay little attention to Climatology, so I have no idea. As far as weather goes, nothing is 100% and the farther out you get, the less accurate you are.

Last week, I could have told you that Christmas Eve/Day and the following week will feature below average temperature for the Northern 2/3rds of the Country west of the Rockies. Low Pressure centers will generally run along the gulf states and up the east coast. Multiple states in the Midwest/Ohio Valley/Great lakes will receive measurable snow on Christmas Eve or Christmas day.

All of these features were showing up last week and they still look likely today. Remember this thread in 1-2 weeks and see how much I got right.

So, can I make the assumption that you would agree that it is impossible for the man made global warming crowd to predict temperatures and weather 5 years or greater from now?

[stevenl]

I do not listen to the weather man on TV.. I use a system that is thousands of years old and is never wrong.. Its what the Native Americans used to use.


http://image22.webshots.com/22/4/50/64/232645064fCyMYr_ph.jpg

[Skyhi]

So, can I make the assumption that you would agree that it is impossible for the man made global warming crowd to predict temperatures and weather 5 years or greater from now?
Like I said, I'm an amateur meteorologist - - - not climatologist. I would agree that the computer models couldn't say if its going to snow in Cleveland on 12/17/2014. I'm not well-versed on the climatological comp. models, so I have no idea if they're accurate or not in predicting GLOBAL and ocean temp.

[towerclimber]

I think it's funny. the idiots at the conference couldn't schedule it for the summer?
LOL! it's snowing in Copenhagen for the first time in 14 years, and those guys are there yelling that the earth is getting warmer.
rofl!!
how dumb can you be? the Goreacle got pwned when he stood up and said the ice caps would melt in 5 years..and the scientist who's name he dropped said "I didn't say that" in front of him at the conference.
Obama went in and said "we're leading the way!! but only if you all do what we tell you."
THAT went over well..LOL!!
I love it...it's like God is sitting there saying "watch this..." and just messing with them..

[Bear Paws]

Even as a atheist I'm starting to believe God has a sense of humor..
We understand the earth not all that much better than the hysterical stone age fire god worshipers. These self elect reprobationist aristocrats put the high priests of Satanical worship to shame.

[Bob Haller]

global warming includes wild weather swings, but can over time still rise

[msmith198025]

global warming includes wild weather swings, but can over time still rise

Lol, just add it as they go to make it include everything. 30 below zero? Doesnt matter, that is part of global warming, better pass this:05:

[Bear Paws]

global warming includes wild weather swings, but can over time still rise How do you account for the Medieval Warm period 600-800 years ago when there where vineyards on Greenland. Bought any fine Greenland wine lately?.

[Bob Haller]

so what do we do ifg the glaciers do melt and flood our coasts, new yourk city gone?

certinally we dont want to make it worse?

just like government deficits..........

truly too big, but many slam obama for added spending........

[towerclimber]

Bob, what exactly can you do that would make a difference?

If I read everything correctly, even the strictest measures that we could enact (were we all in agreement) would change our temperature by only 2 degrees.
the scientists predict a wild temperature swing of 20 degrees or more there's nothing we can do about it. Strangely enough, it's not warming, its been cooling for the last 10 years.

[Bear Paws]

Bob, what exactly can you do that would make a difference?

If I read everything correctly, even the strictest measures that we could enact (were we all in agreement) would change our temperature by only 2 degrees.
the scientists predict a wild temperature swing of 20 degrees or more there's nothing we can do about it. Strangely enough, it's not warming, its been cooling for the last 10 years.Not anymore Tower. The latest revelation we find out the grifters, and and snake oil charlatans have been conveniently ignoring is;http://articles.latimes.com/2007/aug/15/science/sci-temp15And....

http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/2007/08/1998_no_longer_the_hottest_yea.html

The hottest year it turns out was 1934 and we have been cooling ever since but Michael Mann's ( hockey stick father) hockey stick team and Jones "fudged" the number with some "tricks" to raise the slop to a up ward trend and then use bogus readings to get the hockey stick gragh..

The scandal gets bigger..http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017977/climategate-the-scandal-spreads-the-plot-thickens-the-shame-deepens/

"Wow! The scandal just gets juicier and juicier. Now it seems that the Kiwis may have been at it too – tinkering with raw data to make “Global Warming” look scarier than it really is. (Hat tip: Watts Up With That; Ian Wishart)"http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/25/uh-oh-raw-data-in-new-zealand-tells-a-different-story-than-the-official-one/#more-13215

[towerclimber]

heh.

what ever. I've about had it with them all. I know one thing..the first time someone tells my I can't drive my 4wd jeep? I'm going to tell them to jump up a hogs butt for a ham sandwich.

[Skyhi]

Last week, I could have told you that Christmas Eve/Day and the following week will feature below average temperature for the Northern 2/3rds of the Country west of the Rockies. Low Pressure centers will generally run along the gulf states and up the east coast. Multiple states in the Midwest/Ohio Valley/Great lakes will receive measurable snow on Christmas Eve or Christmas day.

All of these features were showing up last week and they still look likely today. Remember this thread in 1-2 weeks and see how much I got right.
Bump for the impending snowstorm about to hit the midwest. Madtown - - get ready. It's not going to be as bad as a few weeks ago, but it's going to be very sloppy.

The computer models were correct 2 weeks out in predicting a major winter storm. The exact location took a little longer to nail down, but overall I'd say they did a pretty good job.

The cold and low pressures parading along the gulf coast that I talked about above are still in play....they're just delayed by a day or 2 because the major winter storm went further west.

[Skyhi]

http://www.accuweather.com/regional-news-story.asp?region=midwestusnews


The worst of the blizzard will slam places from Kansas City to Omaha to Sioux Falls to Marshall, Minn., late Thursday into Friday. Twelve to 18 inches of snow, with locally up to 2 feet, will bury this corridor. Strong winds will severely blow and drift the snow.

[Bob Haller]

geez I hope bad weather doesnt muck up my pittsburgh to phoenix holiday adventure, I leave christmas eve

[Skyhi]

geez I hope bad weather doesnt muck up my pittsburgh to phoenix holiday adventure, I leave christmas eve
Non-stop flight?

[fallout2600]

Ski, those forecast models are predicting the movement of current atmospheric systems. Also, once systems get over land, the models are very accurate, I brought up the hurricane models b/c they change everytime they are run when the system is still over water. My main point is that computer models predicting the temps in 50-100 years are bogus. We just can't go that far out...

[towerclimber]

*sigh* even the examples of our short term weather shoots holes in the climate change shenanigans.

of course the climate changes...it goes from warm to cold once a year..then it goes back again.

so the basic idea of climate change is that they want the ice age that they predicted in the 70's. That's the basic idea that I'm getting from all this.

[Skyhi]

Then how many days out do you feel they can accurately predict the climate and/or weather systems?


Ski, those forecast models are predicting the movement of current atmospheric systems. Also, once systems get over land, the models are very accurate, I brought up the hurricane models b/c they change everytime they are run when the system is still over water. My main point is that computer models predicting the temps in 50-100 years are bogus. We just can't go that far out...
I was just trying to give you an example as an answer to your original question.....meteorological models arne't bad at predicting the weather 2 weeks out....

I don't think climatology models and meteorology models are at all similar.....I think they use very different inputs..

[Bob Haller]

Non-stop flight?

YES! I nearly didnt go at all when non stop flights were near 450 bucks. when it dropped to under 300 non stop I was good to go.

the big hassle will be if my plane to phoenix comes from a snowbound area.

at least I would get stuck in pittsburgh much preferable to getting stuck on a connecting flight spending christmas day in a connecting airport.

If I get stuck in phoenix a little longer its no biggie:)

[fallout2600]

I was just trying to give you an example as an answer to your original question.....meteorological models arne't bad at predicting the weather 2 weeks out....

I don't think climatology models and meteorology models are at all similar.....I think they use very different inputs..

We agree.

[Skyhi]

We agree.
:D :D It feels good for a change!