Obamas plan to kill off more older women

[vurbano]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/16/AR2009111602822.html?wpisrc=newsletter


Women in their 40s should stop routinely having annual mammograms and older women should cut back to one scheduled exam every other year, an influential federal task force has concluded, challenging the use of one of the most common medical tests.

[Bob Haller]

now cite where obama made this decision.............

link please.

[vurbano]

now cite where obama made this decision.............

link please.

They are government Scientists. His employees, his guidelines. All part of his plan.

[Larpra]

They are government Scientists. His employees, his guidelines. All part of his plan.Yup. Just getting us ready for "guvmint" run health care Bob.

[Bear Paws]

Yup. Just getting us ready for "guvmint" run health care Bob. And your excluded , Bob.Your too old.

[Bob Haller]

cite it was obamas call

[msmith198025]

Yup. Just getting us ready for "guvmint" run health care Bob.

Welcome to the forum Larpra:welcome:

[vurbano]

Anyone that doesnt think Obamacare is behind this is really really naive. The death panel fears are starting to come true little by little. That is the problem with letting the socialists get their fingers into this or any other thing. In time they will infect the entire system and control it. Giving government control of our healthcare is the quickest way to turn our constitutional republic into a dictatorship run by emporer Obama.

[Derwin0]

The problem is, this is being done to "cut costs".
What else will be done to "cut costs" when the gov't takes over? Will we have 30 day waits for CT-Scans like up North?

[Skyhi]

The problem is, this is being done to "cut costs".
What else will be done to "cut costs" when the gov't takes over? Will we have 30 day waits for CT-Scans like up North?
It's very troubling. The problem is, costs are out of control and it's getting worse every year. Something has to be done about costs....slimming down preventative care like mammograms is not the answer, but what is? Does anybody have any ideas? Please don't say damage caps......

[Derwin0]

It's very troubling. The problem is, costs are out of control and it's getting worse every year. Something has to be done about costs....slimming down preventative care like mammograms is not the answer, but what is? Does anybody have any ideas? Please don't say damage caps......

Combination of things. (Yes, reform of the malpractice industry is part of it, but only part).

- Shortening the amount of time that drugs are protected from generics would help.
- Also shortening the amount of time on patents & royalties on procedures as well.
- Cut down on some of the unnecessary procedures & tests that help drive costs (part of this would have to depend on malpractice reform, as lots of unnecessary procedures are down as CYA, thank you John Edwards).
- Reasonable caps on malpractice amounts for punitive damages (not actual damages, as though should never be capped).

[Skyhi]

Combination of things. (Yes, reform of the malpractice industry is part of it, but only part).

- Shortening the amount of time that drugs are protected from generics would help.
- Also shortening the amount of time on patents & royalties on procedures as well.
- Cut down on some of the unnecessary procedures & tests that help drive costs (part of this would have to depend on malpractice reform, as lots of unnecessary procedures are down as CYA, thank you John Edwards).
- Reasonable caps on malpractice amounts for punitive damages (not actual damages, as though should never be capped).
You know I'm of the opinion that malpractice reform would do as much good as me and you donating $100 to payoff the national debt, so lets not go there again. :)

I'd be interested to know what kind of cost reductions would result from shortening the time new drugs are protected by patents.....

The problem with these ideas (all ideas, actually) is I can already hear the opposition outcry. The libertarians will be mad about the patents and you'll get some people claiming the government is trying to kill older women if tests are cut....

[HDRoberts]

Combination of things. (Yes, reform of the malpractice industry is part of it, but only part).

- Shortening the amount of time that drugs are protected from generics would help.
- Also shortening the amount of time on patents & royalties on procedures as well.
- Cut down on some of the unnecessary procedures & tests that help drive costs (part of this would have to depend on malpractice reform, as lots of unnecessary procedures are down as CYA, thank you John Edwards).
- Reasonable caps on malpractice amounts for punitive damages (not actual damages, as though should never be capped).

I agree with this. I also think (as much as Derwin might hate it) some rationing would be good. There are a lot of hypochondriacs out there that demand hundreds of tests when they don't feel good. A waiting list might just discourage them, or at least prevent them from getting other tests waiting for other tests. People in emergencies could still get put in the front of the line.

Unfortunately, lawyer groups (ahem, Sky:)) want to count damage awards as the only cost of malpractice. In reality, I think most of the cost is in the defensive medicine that doctors practice. And caps on punitive damages would be good. Damages to pay for long term care, lost wages, and compensation for other losses are fine, but the whole family should not hit the lottery for punitive damages.

[Bob Haller]

currently doctors and hospitals the entire INDUSTRY get paid and more profit for running more tests.....

All involved should get paid to keep us healthier:)

And pay for it all by taxing unhealthy food.

Currently the food industry makes more profit by making addictive yummy high calorie foods, that are making america fat.

Give the food industry a iuncentive to make healthier stuff

One thing for certain the obesity epidemic will wreck our economy if it isnt controled.

[Skyhi]

What kind of defensive medicine are you guys talking about? A doctor has a duty to perform reasonable tests given the situation. They do not have the duty to perform every test in the book.

I think bob hit the nail on the head. "Unnecessary" tests have far more to do with profit than they do with medmal lawsuit fears.

[HDRoberts]

I'll give you an example. My Grandmother recently fell and broke a few bones. We taker her to the hospital, and even though she never lost consciousness, they insisted on a head CT. Maybe making a few bucks was motivation, but my thinking was to avoid potentially missing something and getting sued.

[Derwin0]

What kind of defensive medicine are you guys talking about?
The cerebal palsy lawsuit by John Edwards, which led to a rise in c-sections performed in the U.S.

[Derwin0]

I'll give you an example. My Grandmother recently fell and broke a few bones. We taker her to the hospital, and even though she never lost consciousness, they insisted on a head CT. Maybe making a few bucks was motivation, but my thinking was to avoid potentially missing something and getting sued.
At least you got one.
My wife's grandmother had to wait a month for a CT that found a bleeder in her brain. Something she may never recover from. Which is why I'm against rationing.

But yes, CT's are an example of something that is overused. In your grandmother's case, there was no reason other than CYA by the hospital.

[Skyhi]

I'll give you an example. My Grandmother recently fell and broke a few bones. We taker her to the hospital, and even though she never lost consciousness, they insisted on a head CT. Maybe making a few bucks was motivation, but my thinking was to avoid potentially missing something and getting sued.
I don't think the CT was motivated by profit or fear. It's a good medical decision (esp. with the elderly). One can have a fall, not lose consciousness, develop a subdural hematoma, and die within days if its not detected early.

[Skyhi]

The cerebal palsy lawsuit by John Edwards, which led to a rise in c-sections performed in the U.S.
I don't know anything about that case (or cerebral palsy), but I'd venture to guess that the rate of cerebral palsy caused by a traumatic birth injury has decreased. That is a good thing.

I'm assuming that in the case you're talking about, the child would have been born healthy but for the doctor's decision to forgo a c-section. I'd say the legal process did its job (as well as please free-marketeers like frog) in keeping patients safe without government intervention.

[HDRoberts]

I don't think the CT was motivated by profit or fear. It's a good medical decision (esp. with the elderly). One can have a fall, not lose consciousness, develop a subdural hematoma, and die within days if its not detected early.

She fell 2 days before. That was no longer a danger. She didn't realize she had broken ribs, so she delayed going until the pain became worse.

[Skyhi]

She fell 2 days before. That was no longer a danger. She didn't realize she had broken ribs, so she delayed going until the pain became worse.
Subdural hematomas can take 1-2 weeks to develop.

[Derwin0]

I don't know anything about that case (or cerebral palsy), but I'd venture to guess that the rate of cerebral palsy caused by a traumatic birth injury has decreased. That is a good thing.

I'm assuming that in the case you're talking about, the child would have been born healthy but for the doctor's decision to forgo a c-section. I'd say the legal process did its job (as well as please free-marketeers like frog) in keeping patients safe without government intervention.Nope, there is no link to cerebral palsy and birth. CP develops within the womb. And CP numbers haven't gone down. What happens now is that at any slight sign of distress, the OB's whip the mother into the ER for a C-Section to prevent any possibility of a law suit saying they didn't do enough, even though a C-Section was unnecessary.

John Edwards was pretty much able to sweet talk the jury. You should read the case, Edwards pretty much pretended he was the other John Edward (no s at the end) and channeled the unborn baby's spirit.

[Skyhi]

Nope, there is no link to cerebral palsy and birth. CP develops within the womb. And CP numbers haven't gone down. What happens now is that at any slight sign of distress, the OB's whip the mother into the ER for a C-Section to prevent any possibility of a law suit saying they didn't do enough, even though a C-Section was unnecessary.

There is a link to CP and birth. Here is a link to one of many cites a google search turned up.

http://www.cerebralpalsy.org/cerebral-palsy-causes/birth-injury/
My question is whether the incidences of CP caused by birth injury have gone down. You are saying that unnecessary C-sections are being performed. Maybe they're unnecessary 99% of the time. I wouldn't want to risk that with my child....



John Edwards was pretty much able to sweet talk the jury. You should read the case, Edwards pretty much pretended he was the other John Edward (no s at the end) and channeled the unborn baby's spirit.
Lol! :)

[HDRoberts]

Subdural hematomas can take 1-2 weeks to develop.

She had no symptoms

* A history of recent head injury - Nope
* Loss of consciousness or fluctuating levels of consciousness - Unless you count sleep
* Irritability - Nope
* Seizures - Nope
* Pain - Not in the head
* Numbness - Nope
* Headache (either constant or fluctuating) - Nope
* Dizziness - Nope
* Disorientation - Nope
* Amnesia - Nope
* Weakness or lethargy - Nothing abnormal for an Octogenarian
* Nausea or vomiting - Nope
* Loss of appetite - Nope
* Personality changes - Nope
* Inability to speak or slurred speech - Nope
* Ataxia, or difficulty walking - Just the fall, which was really a trip.
* Altered breathing patterns - Nope
* Blurred Vision - Nope
* Deviated gaze, or abnormal movement of the eyes. - Nope

So you think EVERYONE that trips and falls should get a head CT? That will push costs up even farther.

[Skyhi]

So you think EVERYONE that trips and falls should get a head CT? That will push costs up even farther.
I think doctors have a duty to provide a reasonable standard of care. :) I am not a medical expert, so I have no basis to judge who should and who shouldn't get a CT scan.

A few months ago, my son took a nasty fall from about 6 feet and partially landed on his head. The ER would NOT give him a CT scan even though my wife was begging for one. It all depends on the patient and situation. All I ask is that Doctors behave reasonably under a given set of circumstances. If they don't, they should be held liable for their negligence.

[HD MM]

It's very troubling. The problem is, costs are out of control and it's getting worse every year. Something has to be done about costs....slimming down preventative care like mammograms is not the answer, but what is? Does anybody have any ideas? Please don't say damage caps......

Eliminate the government subsidies to corn and all of the unhealthy processed foods made by it and instead shift those subsidies over to farm fresh produce. When this country (the obese capital of the world) decides to eat better and are given an incentive to do so (cheaper healthy food), health costs will naturally go down.

[Skyhi]

Eliminate the government subsidies to corn and all of the unhealthy processed foods made by it and instead shift those subsidies over to farm fresh produce. When this country (the obese capital of the world) decides to eat better and are given an incentive to do so (cheaper healthy food), health costs will naturally go down.
I like the idea, but I'm not convinced people who are currently eating off of the dollar menu and washing it down with blue drink would switch to fresh brussel sprouts and beets if the cost went down.

[msmith198025]

I like the idea, but I'm not convinced people who are currently eating off of the dollar menu and washing it down with blue drink would switch to fresh brussel sprouts and beets if the cost went down.

Lol, I dont either.

[HD MM]

I like the idea, but I'm not convinced people who are currently eating off of the dollar menu and washing it down with blue drink would switch to fresh brussel sprouts and beets if the cost went down.

But if the price of burgers and sodas went up they might.

There is corn in both products.

[msmith198025]

But if the price of burgers and sodas went up they might.

There is corn in both products.

I doubt it. Raising the price of cigs has not had much effect that I can tell on people smoking.

If people like it, they will eat it.

[HDRoberts]

I doubt it. Raising the price of cigs has not had much effect that I can tell on people smoking.

If people like it, they will eat it.

It has here in the north. I've heard several people who quit because of the cost.

Beneficial to heath care or not, subsidies to corn are a bad idea. Time to stop our tax dollars from going toward making junk food.

[Skyhi]

It has here in the north. I've heard several people who quit because of the cost.

Beneficial to heath care or not, subsidies to corn are a bad idea. Time to stop our tax dollars from going toward making junk food.

I got a prescription for Chantix last month to aid me in giving up the cigs. I'm going to do it for health....cost is an added bonus. I haven't started taking the pills yet because I'm scared to death of the insane side-effects.

I agree with you and HDMM on the corn subsidies.

[Bob Haller]

Tobacco use falls in lock step with increasing prices. price up use down.

Look my grandma used to say you could be insurance poor.

Buy health life auto liability umbrella with a few million coverage on each. Pretty soon you cant afford food:(

On tests: Lets not forget every medical tests has risks and rewards. Too many mamograms and other nuke based tests can lead to a lifetime increase in cancer risks.

Some tests are very dangerous, and sometimes people die. From allergic reactions etc etc

Plus and this is the BRUTAL TRUTH each and every one of us are dying from the day we are born!:(

There is so much possibly going wrong, can we all afford comprehensive invasive tests every year for every possible malfunction? And live with the posible side effects treating something which shows up abnormal yet would never become a life threatening issue? Like treating a slow groing cancer in a 90 year old?

[fallout2600]

I got a prescription for Chantix last month to aid me in giving up the cigs. I'm going to do it for health....cost is an added bonus. I haven't started taking the pills yet because I'm scared to death of the insane side-effects.

I agree with you and HDMM on the corn subsidies.

I quit on the patch. Started with Step 2, did it for 1 month, then switched to Step 3 for 2 weeks. Now I chew on sunflower seeds if I get the urge.

Quitting smoking is like a light switch, it is either on or off. And, don't try to quit until you are ready to turn the switch OFF or you will be wasting time and money...

[Skyhi]

I quit on the patch. Started with Step 2, did it for 1 month, then switched to Step 3 for 2 weeks. Now I chew on sunflower seeds if I get the urge.

Quitting smoking is like a light switch, it is either on or off. And, don't try to quit until you are ready to turn the switch OFF or you will be wasting time and money...
Good for you! :thumbup::thumbup: How long have you been smoke free?

I quit for a few months a few years back using the gum, but I slipped up big time. Once I get my head straight and I'm sure I'm ready to give it 100%, I"m going to start on the Chantix. I hope the effectiveness of it lives up to the hype, but the side-effects don't.

[msmith198025]

I quit on the patch. Started with Step 2, did it for 1 month, then switched to Step 3 for 2 weeks. Now I chew on sunflower seeds if I get the urge.

Quitting smoking is like a light switch, it is either on or off. And, don't try to quit until you are ready to turn the switch OFF or you will be wasting time and money...

I have never smoked, but I do use tobacco. I quit cold turkey right when I started college. It was very very difficult at first, and I put on some weight! Honestly, even 4 years later I would get the urge after every meal.

Then about a year or two ago, my cousin and I decided we would get a can of skoal. Just one can, just for the hell of it. Big mistake....

And you are right, unless you are ready it will not work. If you are, it is beatable. Just dont for any reason think you can be a casual tobacco user after you do.

[fallout2600]

Good for you! :thumbup::thumbup: How long have you been smoke free?

I quit for a few months a few years back using the gum, but I slipped up big time. Once I get my head straight and I'm sure I'm ready to give it 100%, I"m going to start on the Chantix. I hope the effectiveness of it lives up to the hype, but the side-effects don't.

I've been smoke free for about 2 years or so. Smoked for almost 10 years until I realized it wasn't fair to my daughters.

I've heard a bunch of good stories about Chantix. Do you have do ween yourself off the Chantix though? I liked the patch b/c is slowly weened me off the nicotine without trading nicotine for another dependency.

[fallout2600]

I have never smoked, but I do use tobacco. I quit cold turkey right when I started college. It was very very difficult at first, and I put on some weight! Honestly, even 4 years later I would get the urge after every meal.

Then about a year or two ago, my cousin and I decided we would get a can of skoal. Just one can, just for the hell of it. Big mistake....

And you are right, unless you are ready it will not work. If you are, it is beatable. Just dont for any reason think you can be a casual tobacco user after you do.

Yep, it is a light switch....the body LOVES nicotine!

<Fallout reaches for bag of sunflower seeds!!> :)

[vurbano]

I don't think the CT was motivated by profit or fear. It's a good medical decision (esp. with the elderly). One can have a fall, not lose consciousness, develop a subdural hematoma, and die within days if its not detected early.
wow, I agree.

[vurbano]

I got a prescription for Chantix last month to aid me in giving up the cigs. I'm going to do it for health....cost is an added bonus. I haven't started taking the pills yet because I'm scared to death of the insane side-effects.

I agree with you and HDMM on the corn subsidies.
Stop being a P@$$y and quit without drugs Like I did. The addiction had me puking over the toilet when I stopped.

[Skyhi]

I've been smoke free for about 2 years or so. Smoked for almost 10 years until I realized it wasn't fair to my daughters.

I've heard a bunch of good stories about Chantix. Do you have do ween yourself off the Chantix though? I liked the patch b/c is slowly weened me off the nicotine without trading nicotine for another dependency.
No weening off the Chantix. You're supposed to take it for 2-3 months and stop. It works by blocking the nicotine receptors in your brain. Hopefully it works well. :)

[Skyhi]

Stop being a P@$$y and quit without drugs Like I did. The addiction had me puking over the toilet when I stopped.
What kind of logic is that? You can have a cavity filled without Novocaine and have a hip replaced without anesthesia . Why would I want to choose pain if it can be avoided or dulled?

[fallout2600]

No weening off the Chantix. You're supposed to take it for 2-3 months and stop. It works by blocking the nicotine receptors in your brain. Hopefully it works well. :)

Well, best of luck in being a "quitter". :thumbup:

[Skyhi]

Well, best of luck in being a "quitter". :thumbup:
TY. It's going to be nice not having to go stand outside on those bitterly cold below zero Winter nights.

[HD MM]

Stop being a P@$$y and quit without drugs Like I did. The addiction had me puking over the toilet when I stopped.

Talk about a P@$$y! Puking over "cigarette" addiction. Wow, you're weak. :)

[HD MM]

No weening off the Chantix. You're supposed to take it for 2-3 months and stop. It works by blocking the nicotine receptors in your brain. Hopefully it works well. :)

I've heard BAD things about that Chantix. A co-worker was on that stuff and had Hallucinations, mood swings and crazy bad dreams at night.

[vurbano]

What kind of logic is that? You can have a cavity filled without Novocaine and have a hip replaced without anesthesia . Why would I want to choose pain if it can be avoided or dulled?
go ahead with your crutch then

[Skyhi]

Talk about a P@$$y! Puking over "cigarette" addiction. Wow, you're weak. :)
Yeah. I've never heard of such a thing...how much were you smoking, vurb? 10 packs a day?

[vurbano]

Talk about a P@$$y! Puking over "cigarette" addiction. Wow, you're weak. :)
Nictotene is one of the strongest addictions around. Look at the numbers, addicts everywhere.

[Skyhi]

I've heard BAD things about that Chantix. A co-worker was on that stuff and had Hallucinations, mood swings and crazy bad dreams at night.
The stories on the net about that drug are horrific. Bad dreams that "melt" into waking life, suicidal thoughts, etc....

[fallout2600]

The stories on the net about that drug are horrific. Bad dreams that "melt" into waking life, suicidal thoughts, etc....

The patch can cause intense dreams also. They did to me ONLY if I wore them when I slept, otherwise it never happened. I just took the patch off when I went to bed. The Chantix must be active 24 hours in your blood if it can cause intense dreams.

[vurbano]

Talk about a P@$$y! Puking over "cigarette" addiction. Wow, you're weak. :)

If its so easy to quit why would anyone need drugs to quit it then? Just grow some will power and quit.

[Skyhi]

go ahead with your crutch then
I plan on it. Why would I want to be puking over the toilet if it can be avoided?

[Skyhi]

The patch can cause intense dreams also. They did to me ONLY if I wore them when I slept, otherwise it never happened. I just took the patch off when I went to bed. The Chantix must be active 24 hours in your blood if it can cause intense dreams.
I tried the patch before, but I couldn't stand it. I had the weird dreams (even when I wasn't wearing it)....I could handle those. I could not handle the insanely rapid heartbeat.

[fallout2600]

I tried the patch before, but I couldn't stand it. I had the weird dreams (even when I wasn't wearing it)....I could handle those. I could not handle the insanely rapid heartbeat.

Had the same "edge" on the chest when using the Step 1 of the patch. Patch Step 1 is 21 milligrams of nicotine, that is 21 cigs a day. I wasn't smoking that much a day. So I switched to Step 2, which was 14 milligrams and had a completely difference experience, much more balanced. Just my experience...

[Derwin0]

And now less testing for Cervical Cancer
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575891,00.html

My favorite quote

For that reason, she said changing the screening interval will not mean more cervical cancers will be missed. She said most deaths from cervical cancer in the United States happen in people who are screened infrequently, or not at all.Well of course most deaths are from those screened infrequently, because they don't get checked early enough to catch it. :rolleyes:

[msmith198025]

It is amazing that there is not even more outrage over this. Dont people see what is happeneing? Little by little?

[Bob Haller]

if obama were behind the change in mammograms he would of waited for health care reform.

might be somone against reform pushed this to derail changes.

remember there are big bucks being made as is.

and people dying from preventable causes because they lacked insurance

[Derwin0]

if obama were behind the change in mammograms he would of waited for health care reform.He's not the one.

But these changes are being made to save money.
A government plan will also make changes to save money.

This is a precursor of what will happen if the government took over health care.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

rationed health care is on the way if Obamacare passes....God help us all.

they should allow cross state insurance selling, remove pre-existing conditions limits on health care, and allow you to take health care from job to job if you so choose with the employer providing a static amount of contribution so they are not impacted if the policy.

Other than that I don't think it is so bad with the current state of Health care insurance. The Dems needs to stop running around with their hair on fire.

[Skyhi]

rationed health care is on the way if Obamacare passes....God help us all.

they should allow cross state insurance selling, remove pre-existing conditions limits on health care, and allow you to take health care from job to job if you so choose with the employer providing a static amount of contribution so they are not impacted if the policy.

Other than that I don't think it is so bad with the current state of Health care insurance. The Dems needs to stop running around with their hair on fire.
So you also favor the government mandating that all people carry health insurance? You can't have one without the other....

[Madtown HD Junkie]

no the gov't should not mandate that.
They could still remove the pre-existing conditions limitations. What would prevent them from doing so?

[Skyhi]

no the gov't should not mandate that.
They could still remove the pre-existing conditions limitations. What would prevent them from doing so?
If what you're suggesting actually occurred, the insurance companies would quickly go out of business. Many people would not carry any sort of insurance. They'd pay out of pocket for routine visits and then add insurance as needed. People would pay a few hundred bucks a year for a physical and if cancer was detected, they'd buy insurance.

Imagine it in the context of auto insurance. It would be like buying auto insurance and submitting a claim after you've crashed your car into a tree.

[msmith198025]

Good point

[Skyhi]

Good point
Yeah. If insurance companies can no longer deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, then there must be an insurance mandate. The two have to go together. Not having a mandate would not be fair to insurance companies and would eventually ruin them.