Avoiding Factory Farm Foods: An Eater's Guide

[HD MM]

Here's a wonderful guide to those of us who are conscious about where our food comes from and the environmental and health impacts it has on us.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nicolette-hahn-niman/avoiding-factory-farm-foo_b_353525.html

[HDRoberts]

I wish there was a Whole Foods on my side of town. But I have come to the conclusion that management HATES the midwest. They have a "stores in development" page on their site, and the only stores ANYWHERE in the midwest are in the Chicagoland area.

I'm willing to pay more. But I don't want to devote an hour and a half every few days to go east (or south to Mustard Seed) just to pick food up.

[DodgerKing]

I often watch Emerald Greens. One thing he does often is promote locally grown food. When I hear locally grown I think he means like within the same city or at least the same state. I laughed when he considered something from South Carolina to be local. The local farmers markets or even the local section within our grocery stores here are just that, local. The food is actually grown in the same city or a neighboring city less than 10 miles away (if not at least it is from CA).

[HD MM]

I wish there was a Whole Foods on my side of town. But I have come to the conclusion that management HATES the midwest. They have a "stores in development" page on their site, and the only stores ANYWHERE in the midwest are in the Chicagoland area.

I'm willing to pay more. But I don't want to devote an hour and a half every few days to go east (or south to Mustard Seed) just to pick food up.

There are other convenient ways to eat consciously. Actually, an even "greener" way of shopping is to visit local Farmers Markets and CSA's (community supported agriculture). And yes, even the westside offers you this option....

On the Westside, Lakewood has one of the biggest Farmers Markets in NE Ohio (Kamms Corner's Farmers Market). Tremont has a CSA called "Fresh Fork Market" (http://www.freshforkmarket.com/) which is a collaboration of local, sustainable farmers that offer their products through this one source.

But more than anything, knowledge is the key. Read that HuffPost column I posted. It gives you a guide on what to look for on packaging labels and what questions to ask the sellers.

[HD MM]

I often watch Emerald Greens. One thing he does often is promote locally grown food. When I hear locally grown I think he means like within the same city or at least the same state. I laughed when he considered something from South Carolina to be local. The local farmers markets or even the local section within our grocery stores here are just that, local. The food is actually grown in the same city or a neighboring city less than 10 miles away (if not at least it is from CA).

:thumbup: Buying local is important, not just because of the environmental impacts, but also because you will have a better idea of where and how the food originates. When I go to farmers markets, I can talk to the farmer himself and determine whether the beef was grass fed or grain. Whether the eggs were from hens raised on a pasture. Whether the food was injected with hormones or the produce laced with pesticides, etc.....

Try figuring that out form a simple label you'd find in a factory processed piece of meat from your grocery store.

[Skyhi]

:thumbup: Buying local is important, not just because of the environmental impacts, but also because you will have a better idea of where and how the food originates. When I go to farmers markets, I can talk to the farmer himself and determine whether the beef was grass fed or grain. Whether the eggs, were from hens raised on a pasture. Whether the food was injected with hormones or pesticides, etc.....

Try figuring that out form a simple label you'd find in a factory processed piece of meat from your grocery store.
Get your beef from Heinen's. You'll pay a premium, but the beef is 100% grass fed and they track the cow from birth to slaughter.

[HD MM]

Get your beef from Heinen's. You'll pay a premium, but the beef is 100% grass fed and they track the cow from birth to slaughter.

When I do go to the grocer, Heinen's is one of the few I do go to. I love that place and everyone I talk to is very helpful. :thumbup:

[HDRoberts]

There are other convenient ways to eat consciously. Actually, an even "greener" way of shopping is to visit local Farmers Markets and CSA's (community supported agriculture). And yes, even the westside offers you this option....

On the Westside, Lakewood has one of the biggest Farmers Markets in NE Ohio (Kamms Corner's Farmers Market). Tremont has a CSA called "Fresh Fork Market" (http://www.freshforkmarket.com/) which is a collaboration of local, sustainable farmers that offer their products through this one source.

But more than anything, knowledge is the key. Read that HuffPost column I posted. It gives you a guide on what to look for on packaging labels and what questions to ask the sellers.

Kamms is hardly enough. And some of those vendors are hardly local farmers. And there is only good stuff a few months of the year.

And "questions to ask the sellers?" Like the pimply faced kid at Giant Eagle knows anything.

My parents do one better. They drive weekly to Amish Country in Medina County for milk and eggs. We also frequent the Homerville produce auction (where I bet a lot of farmer's market produce comes from).

It's just all that travel, and thus burning gas, makes the whole endeavor quite a bit less sustainable, not only environmentally, but time wise. I don't see why "sustainable" also has to equal "inconvenient" at least for those of us on the west side.

[Skyhi]

And "questions to ask the sellers?" Like the pimply faced kid at Giant Eagle knows anything.

My parents do one better. They drive weekly to Amish Country in Medina County for milk and eggs. We also frequent the Homerville produce auction (where I bet a lot of farmer's market produce comes from).

It's just all that travel, and thus burning gas, makes the whole endeavor quite a bit less sustainable, not only environmentally, but time wise. I don't see why "sustainable" also has to equal "inconvenient" at least for those of us on the west side.
I'll be a Heinen's shill again.....

Go to the Rocky River Store. Ask the adults who work there (yes, they still employ full-time adults).....you'll get your answer most of the time.

[HD MM]

Kamms is hardly enough. And some of those vendors are hardly local farmers. And there is only good stuff a few months of the year.

And "questions to ask the sellers?" Like the pimply faced kid at Giant Eagle knows anything.

My parents do one better. They drive weekly to Amish Country in Medina County for milk and eggs. We also frequent the Homerville produce auction (where I bet a lot of farmer's market produce comes from).

It's just all that travel, and thus burning gas, makes the whole endeavor quite a bit less sustainable, not only environmentally, but time wise. I don't see why "sustainable" also has to equal "inconvenient" at least for those of us on the west side.

"It's not convenient" is the reason mega market grocery stores and factory farms exist. :(

Well, that and the whole fact that government subsidizes industrial agriculture, but that is another story for another day.

If you're serious about eating locally sustained and organic foods, there are options. Sky and I gave you examples other than the 30 mile drive to Whole Foods.

[HDRoberts]

"It's not convenient" is the reason mega market grocery stores and factory farms exist. :(

So we should go out of our way to make sustainable foods inconvenient?

If we want broad acceptance, we need to emulate what has made the factory foods so appealing: not price, not taste, but convenience. Why not try?

Trader Joe's is good, but selection is limited. Kamm's FM is good, but again, selection is limited, and practically non existent most of they year. Heniens is good for some stuff, but much of what I see there is the same as Giant Eagle with inflated prices. Yes, there are options on my side of town, but they could be a lot better.

[HD MM]

So we should go out of our way to make sustainable foods inconvenient?

Going out of your way to buy local makes more sense than driving to the corner store for raspberries that were shipped from across country.



If we want broad acceptance, we need to emulate what has made the factory foods so appealing: not price, not taste, but convenience. Why not try?

IMO, price is the #1 factor in why Factory Farms succeed, not convenience. People will drive all over town for a deal.

But back to the Big "convenient" Grocery Stores. The Government subsidizes many of the processed foods (anything with corn in it) and make them cheaper to buy. Eating and supporting processed foods because it's "cheaper" is a vicious cycle. Sure it may be cheaper now, but you'll be paying for it in medical bills down the road.

As for food consciousness, it is at an all time high. That's without a doubt a good thing. In addition, a lot of local restaurants (Greenhouse Tavern, Great Lakes Brewery, etc.) are also practicing local sustainability and doing their part in passing along the message.



Trader Joe's is good, but selection is limited. Kamm's FM is good, but again, selection is limited, and practically non existent most of they year. Heniens is good for some stuff, but much of what I see there is the same as Giant Eagle with inflated prices. Yes, there are options on my side of town, but they could be a lot better.

We all just have to do our best. Especially living in part of the States where we can't enjoy 12 months of seasonal produce.

Kamms and other Farmers Markets (North Union in Shaker is where I go) are typically open from May thru November. That's 7 months out of the year that we can buy local produce. I try and buy as much produce as I can through these. As for meats, cheeses and eggs, those can be had locally all year round.

[Skyhi]

I just got home from Zagara's. I'm not sure if it came from a factory farm or not, but 90% of the produce I bought today was Ohio grown.

[HDRoberts]

Going out of your way to buy local makes more sense than driving to the corner store for raspberries that were shipped from across country.

I think you misunderstood what I meant by "go out of the way". Why not try to get local stuff at the local grocery store? That's my point. Why should be be a choice between good food across town, and bad food next door?


IMO, price is the #1 factor in why Factory Farms succeed, not convenience. People will drive all over town for a deal.

But back to the Big "convenient" Grocery Stores. The Government subsidizes many of the processed foods (anything with corn in it) and make them cheaper to buy. Eating and supporting processed foods because it's "cheaper" is a vicious cycle. Sure it may be cheaper now, but you'll be paying for it in medical bills down the road.

As for food consciousness, it is at an all time high. That's without a doubt a good thing. In addition, a lot of local restaurants (Greenhouse Tavern, Great Lakes Brewery, etc.) are also practicing local sustainability and doing their part in passing along the message.

Price is big, no doubt, but I think convenience is bigger. But if there was a Whole Foods with more unprocessed stuff around as close to me as as the Giant Eagle's and Marc's, I'd go there almost all the time.

Don't forget, convenience isn't just about where to get it, it is also about how easy it is to prepare. That is where processed food kills good food.

Subsidies for corn products need to go. But not as long as we let those idiot corn farmers in Iowa chose our presidential candidates will that happen.

Food consciousness is high, and we need to leverage that. But it will go nowhere unless year round options for all day to day needs are close to people.


We all just have to do our best. Especially living in part of the States where we can't enjoy 12 months of seasonal produce.

Kamms and other Farmers Markets (North Union in Shaker is where I go) are typically open from May thru November. That's 7 months out of the year that we can buy local produce. I try and buy as much produce as I can through these. As for meats, cheeses and eggs, those can be had locally all year round.

Farmers markets may be open May-November, but there is not much there May-July, aside from some summer berries, meats and cheeses (but I find selection extremely low at farmer's markets), and things like jam and honey. Really only August and September is stuff really up to par.

I'm trying to do my best, but I want to do more. I just want some help by way of convenience.

[HD MM]

I just got home from Zagara's. I'm not sure if it came from a factory farm or not, but 90% of the produce I bought today was Ohio grown.

Yay for Sky! Good going buddy! :thumbup: :)

[Skyhi]

Yay for Sky! Good going buddy! :thumbup: :)
During the Summer I'm pretty close to 100% Ohio grown produce, but sadly the growing season is all but over.

A side note for HDMM and HDRoberts: Christmas Ale is in!!! :D :D

[HDRoberts]

A side note for the HDMM and HDRoberts: Christmas Ale is in!!! :D :D

Already picked some up last weekend. :)

[Skyhi]

We have our own vegetable garden in the Summer.....I highly recommend that to all.

[HD MM]

I think you misunderstood what I meant by "go out of the way". Why not try to get local stuff at the local grocery store? That's my point. Why should be be a choice between good food across town, and bad food next door?

I understood. It's just that if local food isn't available at the local store, the next best option is to NOT settle for buying the stuff shipped from China, but instead going "across town" to get the locally grown stuff. I know it's not convenient, but it is the lesser of two evils IMO.



Don't forget, convenience isn't just about where to get it, it is also about how easy it is to prepare. That is where processed food kills good food.

Where you may call one thing "not convenient", I call it lazy. If I have to take 20 minutes to prepare a healthier dish, in the grande scheme of things, it is a better alternative.



I'm trying to do my best, but I want to do more. I just want some help by way of convenience.

I hear ya. Check into this place...

http://www.freshforkmarket.com/

It's a place where you can make a list (online) of what you want to buy, then pick it up in several locations throughout NE Ohio or it's main headquarters in Tremont. The selection is greater, because it's a collection of multiple farmers markets throughout the area.

As for meats, cheeses and milk, I'm pretty sure this place operates all year round too.

[HD MM]

During the Summer I'm pretty close to 100% Ohio grown produce, but sadly the growing season is all but over.

A side note for HDMM and HDRoberts: Christmas Ale is in!!! :D :D

Will be picking up a CASE on the way home (from Heinens). Plan on tossing back a few during the Cavs game. :)

On the topic of local beers, you got to check out Indigo Imp's varieties. It's a local brewery, operated by a husband and wife. The beer can be found at Heinens.

[HD MM]

We have our own vegetable garden in the Summer.....I highly recommend that to all.

We had a small one this year, but our lot is pretty shaded, so we can't grow much.

Next year, I want to buy into a Co-Op or a CSA.

For a fee, you buy shares of a local farm. Then each week, you go to the pickup zone (usually a Farmers Market) or the Farm itself and they fill you up a bag with whatever fruits/veggies is in season, along with fresh eggs and meats.

It's kind of fun to see what you get each week and you're forced to be creative in assembling different meals out of the bounty for that week.

[HDRoberts]

I understood. It's just that if local food isn't available at the local store, the next best option is to NOT settle for buying the stuff shipped from China, but instead going "across town" to get the locally grown stuff. I know it's not convenient, but it is the lesser of two evils IMO.

I agree, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to have our cake and eat it, too.


Where you may call one thing "not convenient", I call it lazy. If I have to take 20 minutes to prepare a healthier dish, in the grande scheme of things, it is a better alternative.

My experience is it's a little more than 20 minutes. Breakfast I can do in under 10 minutes, but add packing a lunch and having to do both before I leave for work makes it difficult. Dinner is 30 minutes plus. Being single, it stinks to have to do it every day. Plus, portions seem designed for families, and makes it tough for the single guy without waste.


I hear ya. Check into this place...

http://www.freshforkmarket.com/

It's a place where you can make a list (online) of what you want to buy, then pick it up in several locations throughout NE Ohio or it's main headquarters in Tremont. The selection is greater, because it's a collection of multiple farmers markets throughout the area.

As for meats, cheeses and milk, I'm pretty sure this place operates all year round too.

I'm giving it a look.

[HD MM]

My experience is it's a little more than 20 minutes. Breakfast I can do in under 10 minutes, but add packing a lunch and having to do both before I leave for work makes it difficult. Dinner is 30 minutes plus. Being single, it stinks to have to do it every day. Plus, portions seem designed for families, and makes it tough for the single guy without waste.



That's more excuses. I used to be a chef, so maybe cooking comes more easy to me, but it's easy to make a recipe to fit your needs. If you want to follow a recipe that serves a family, just half it (ie. where 1 TSP is called for, use 1.2 TSP).

As for the single thing, you can actually SAVE time, because you will be actually cooking less food and on the occasion you have leftovers, you can pack them for lunch and save cash as well as time preparing a lunch for the next day.

[HDRoberts]

That's more excuses. I used to be a chef, so maybe cooking comes more easy to me, but it's easy to make a recipe to fit your needs. If you want to follow a recipe that serves a family, just half it (ie. where 1 TSP is called for, use 1.2 TSP).

As for the single thing, you can actually SAVE time, because you will be actually cooking less food and on the occasion you have leftovers, you can pack them for lunch and save cash as well as time preparing a lunch for the next day.

Wasn't referring to recipes as much as packaging. Included is some "natural" packaging.

And while it might take a minute or 2 less for us singleton, families more than make up for it in the fact that only a fraction of the family is cooking on a particular night.

[Bear Paws]

Horse hockey.. Buying Local grown means nothing as far as safety. If anything its probably more hazardous. The small farms have no oversight and you have no idea what they are useing for pesticides and fertilizer. I would rather buy from a Certified Organic grower if I was soooo worried. There are FDA guidelines that they must follow as well as the Organic something or another Association.
You think the local farmer, even if he supplies a local market store, has the ability to test for or the incentive to do a recall for say E Coli.. The handling of produce and meats on the local level is far from sanitary. It travels on the same wagon in from the field as the manure did out to the field.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

I agree with buying local and organic whenever possible. I would love to have a garden but our neighborhood said no gardens..."you can rent land for $50 a year and plant food on vacant land we have."...bs AS bear said you still need to make sure it is edible and clean .

Whole foods rocks and does the farmers market around the capitol each year here, though it is becoming to commercialized.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3019/2712946972_e7d6fdda8f.jpg?v=0http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8830/1014342py8.jpg

[vurbano]

I often watch Emerald Greens. One thing he does often is promote locally grown food. When I hear locally grown I think he means like within the same city or at least the same state. I laughed when he considered something from South Carolina to be local. The local farmers markets or even the local section within our grocery stores here are just that, local. The food is actually grown in the same city or a neighboring city less than 10 miles away (if not at least it is from CA).

Emerald Greens? Thats a country club not a person. You mean Emeril Lagasse? or Emerald Greens INC that sells food? http://www.emeraldgreens.com/home.php

[Bear Paws]

Emerald Greens? Thats a country club not a person. You mean Emeril Lagasse? or Emerald Greens INC that sells food? http://www.emeraldgreens.com/home.php Naaa..there is (has been) a "Green" channel on Dish Net (maybe Cable too). It has a program with Lagasse called Emerald Green. Or am I missing you messing with Dodger's use of the (s) on green..
THe whole concept of the channel http://planetgreen.discovery.com/is interestingly stupid 90% of the time. The green part is the extra gr$$n it costs you to go green. Ed Bagly (Living with Ed) is funny as hell in a way. The wife does a good job as the straight (non-green) person..Easy on the eyes too.

[vurbano]

Naaa..there is (has been) a "Green" channel on Dish Net (maybe Cable too). It has a program with Lagasse called Emerald Green. Or am I missing you messing with Dodger's use of the (s) on green..
THe whole concept of the channel http://planetgreen.discovery.com/is interestingly stupid 90% of the time. The green part is the extra gr$$n it costs you to go green. Ed Bagly (Living with Ed) is funny as hell in a way. The wife does a good job as the straight (non-green) person..Easy on the eyes too.


Hes talking about Emeril Lagasse on The Emeril Green Show, there is no emerald green show. http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tv-schedules/series.html?paid=237.15640.127060.35725.53
http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tv/emeril-green/

I laugh at Ed Bagley too.

[HDRoberts]

Finally saw Food Inc. tonight. Scary stuff. I have even more faith in the need for regulation and breaking up these multinationals. Monsanto, Tyson, Smithfield, Purdue, definitely the root of all evil there. Regulation was built up after how poorly the free market did (see "The Jungle" by Upton Sincair). But the regulations put in place have been slowly torn down by these corporations, who's employees magically seem to be placed in oversight positions. Where something like 50,000 inspections were made a year in the 70s less then 10,000 are made today. The little guy is trying to speak out, but is being sued into submission. If I were president, the first thing I would do is put Joel Salatin in charge of the FDA, instead of some corporate plant. I'd also transfer all corn subsidies to subsidizing real vegetables that humans were meant to eat.

You all should see that film. It is out on DVD. Maybe then you will see why your ideas of telling corporations they can do whatever they want is so ridiculous to me.

[froggigger]

Finally saw Food Inc. tonight. Scary stuff. I have even more faith in the need for regulation and breaking up these multinationals. Monsanto, Tyson, Smithfield, Purdue, definitely the root of all evil there. Regulation was built up after how poorly the free market did (see "The Jungle" by Upton Sincair). But the regulations put in place have been slowly torn down by these corporations, who's employees magically seem to be placed in oversight positions. Where something like 50,000 inspections were made a year in the 70s less then 10,000 are made today. The little guy is trying to speak out, but is being sued into submission. If I were president, the first thing I would do is put Joel Salatin in charge of the FDA, instead of some corporate plant. I'd also transfer all corn subsidies to subsidizing real vegetables that humans were meant to eat.

You all should see that film. It is out on DVD. Maybe then you will see why your ideas of telling corporations they can do whatever they want is so ridiculous to me.

The other side of the story.

http://www.safefoodinc.org/

[msmith198025]

You mean there is another side to the story? No......:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-

[HDRoberts]

And, as always, the truth lies somewhere in between. But I think it is far closer to the Food Inc. version. Those guys represent the meat industry, where as Food Inc. is independent. Far less motive to lie than the industry that is being criticized.

[froggigger]

And, as always, the truth lies somewhere in between. But I think it is far closer to the Food Inc. version. Those guys represent the meat industry, where as Food Inc. is independent. Far less motive to lie than the industry that is being criticized.

Food Inc. is independent and less likely to lie? Do you know who the two men were in the beginning of the film that were not identified? Eric Schlosser and Michael Pollan. Schlosser was responsible for Fast Food Nation and Pollan for The Omnivore's Dilemma. Schlosser also co-produced Food Inc. These two men have a definite agenda, as does the food industry. Never assume one side is less likely to push their way of thinking on the public until you give a serious look at both sides of any issue. Then make an intelligent, informed decision.

[markh]

I did watch Food, Inc and one thing that surprised me is how crowded the chickens were on that farm. If that's the norm then I'm surprised that she wasn't losing more chickens than she was. I've never raised chickens but I don't see how they can keep any of them healthy being that crowded.

E. Coli has been around forever and exists in the intestines of cattle. It isn't something that just showed up. IMO, the reason we're seeing more is unskilled workers processing beef. Butchering is a skill. I know of a small plant in Wisconsin that hires illegals until the system catches up with them then they hire a new bunch. If not done properly the intestines will be cut and the carcass will be covered in bacteria. Feeding corn is not a new technique of fattening cattle, it's been done for longer than I can remember. It's not the cause of e. Coli in meat.



You think the local farmer, even if he supplies a local market store, has the ability to test for or the incentive to do a recall for say E Coli.. The handling of produce and meats on the local level is far from sanitary. It travels on the same wagon in from the field as the manure did out to the field.

What can I say? You're completely clueless. Any meat for sale to the public must be from a federally inspected slaughter house even if it's just a little locker plant that butchers one day a week and has one guy do it all and he has to be licensed.

You guys are really getting screwed on the price of milk in the stores today. Farmers are getting barely over a dollar a gallon and I just paid $3.47 for a gallon of 2% milk. Just curious what milk costs elsewhere.

[bruce]

Just curious what milk costs elsewhere.

Sam's Club and Krogers here in the Metro Detroit area is $1.79.

Super Wal-Mart, Target and Meijers is $1.99.

[msmith198025]

Sam's Club and Krogers here in the Metro Detroit area is $1.79.

Super Wal-Mart, Target and Meijers is $1.99.

Great prices. And I thought we had a lower cost of living.

[HDRoberts]

I did watch Food, Inc and one thing that surprised me is how crowded the chickens were on that farm. If that's the norm then I'm surprised that she wasn't losing more chickens than she was. I've never raised chickens but I don't see how they can keep any of them healthy being that crowded.

I was even ore surprised at how they all could barely walk.

I even wonder how worse it is in the tunnel buildings Tyson stopped that farmer from showing. That one website someone linked to had supposed video, but it is is really that innocuous, why stop the Food Inc crew from filming?


E. Coli has been around forever and exists in the intestines of cattle. It isn't something that just showed up. IMO, the reason we're seeing more is unskilled workers processing beef. Butchering is a skill. I know of a small plant in Wisconsin that hires illegals until the system catches up with them then they hire a new bunch. If not done properly the intestines will be cut and the carcass will be covered in bacteria. Feeding corn is not a new technique of fattening cattle, it's been done for longer than I can remember. It's not the cause of e. Coli in meat.

I agree that butchering needs to be practiced with more skill. But I also think having cows standing knee deep in their own feces may be a contributing factor. Plus, they were mainly concerned with a particular strain, Escherichia coli O157:H7, which is one of a few that cause hemorrhagic diarrhea. I believe the point was that that particular strain seems to thrive better in corn-fed beef, and that grass feed, we it still might be contaminated with E. coli, might have a less lethal strain.

But on the subject of illegals, I'm shocked the government does not raid that entire Smithfield facility. They seem to know all the illegals are working there. They should shut it down.


Just curious what milk costs elsewhere.

I've seen as low as $1.79/gal in sale, but typically $1.99-$2.39 in grocery stores. Of course, I prefer the $5.99 organic.

I wish I could buy unpasteurized from a local farmer my father knows, but sadly big ag in Ohio has made them unable to sell milk, as it is illegal.

[Bear Paws]

I wish I could buy unpasteurized from a local farmer my father knows, but sadly big ag in Ohio has made them unable to sell milk, as it is illegal. I grew up in a area in the Berkshires that had a lot of small farms for personal use. The would have a few cows etc. At least once a year someone would die just in our town of 600 from raw (unpasteurized) milk. Not a good idea. http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/ucm079516.htm

Pasteurization does not destroy any of the nutrients that you think your getting from cow milk. Actually I think cow milk is not only NOT beneficial for humans I think in fresh form its bad for us. At least in the sense that we think we are getting nutrients we are not and not eating the things we should because we been led to believe a glass of milk gives you what you need. So we actually get deficient. Goat is closer to human milk but still not great.. Most nutrients, including calcium, is not in a form we can absorb. We don't have the same number of stomachs, PH level and digestive systen cow/calf's have. Our calcium, D, and E should come from the same place a cow gets it from.. The soil via green plants and the sun. Even cows don't drink milk.

Its nothing but a big scam to sell that unused milk that at one time was thrown away from the taking and butchering of the calf (veal) for meat. The cow had to be milked to keep it producing. But there is just so much of a market for cheeses and now ice cream. Yeah people drank it because it was wrongly considered a food, and it was readily available and cheap.. I'm not saying its bad for you unless you depend on it as your sole source of nutrition, but it has very little if any food value other than it tastes good cold. Its fill... And ...Its like lager beer. Warm beer and warm cow milk taste like skunk piss. (to me)

Don't get me wrong.. I use it occasionally on cereal and in baking/cooking. I'm lactose intolerant so I have to go easy on the fresh stuff.. I love Ice cream. Its one of the food groups up there with steak, fries, and chocolate.

[Skyhi]

Pasteurization does not destroy any of the nutrients that you think your getting from cow milk. Actually I think cow milk is not only NOT beneficial for humans I think in fresh form its bad for us. At least in the sense that we think we are getting nutrients we are not and not eating the things we should because we been led to believe a glass of milk gives you what you need. So we actually get deficient. Goat is closer to human milk but still not great.. Most nutrients, including calcium, is not in a form we can absorb. We don't have the same number of stomachs, PH level and digestive systen cow/calf's have. Our calcium, D, and E should come from the same place a cow gets it from.. The soil via green plants and the sun. Even cows don't drink milk.


I agree. Milk is for babies. Humans need to get with the rest of the animal kingdom and stop drinking it once we can eat food.

[HDRoberts]

I grew up in a area in the Berkshires that had a lot of small farms for personal use. The would have a few cows etc. At least once a year someone would die just in our town of 600 from raw (unpasteurized) milk. Not a good idea. http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/ucm079516.htm


The problem isn't the pasteurization. It's how they do it. They can heat it to 170 degrees for 2 seconds, or 140 degrees for 30 minutes. Guess which they do? Thing is, milk has natural enzymes that do help us digest it, but they are destroyed by the higher temperatures. My parents actually have a machine that pasteurizes the latter way (made in the 60s, but it still works).

[HDRoberts]

I agree. Milk is for babies. Humans need to get with the rest of the animal kingdom and stop drinking it once we can eat food.

The Jews were promised a land flowing with milk and honey. Maybe it was created for our use.

[Skyhi]

The Jews were promised a land flowing with milk and honey. Maybe it was created for our use.
What?!?! :) I live in a land where cow milk was created for baby calves.....not in a land where milk and honey flows.

I can't really get with religious stories.....

[HD MM]

Horse hockey.. Buying Local grown means nothing as far as safety. If anything its probably more hazardous. The small farms have no oversight and you have no idea what they are useing for pesticides and fertilizer. I would rather buy from a Certified Organic grower if I was soooo worried. There are FDA guidelines that they must follow as well as the Organic something or another Association.
You think the local farmer, even if he supplies a local market store, has the ability to test for or the incentive to do a recall for say E Coli.. The handling of produce and meats on the local level is far from sanitary. It travels on the same wagon in from the field as the manure did out to the field.

The #1 reason for the E.Coli outbreaks in beef is because all Big-Agro farms feed their cattle grain & by-products. This is not natural. Cattle should be eating grass and clover, not corn. And when the animals are packed into mega farms with little to no room to roam, they are forced to wallow in each others manure which spreads the bacteria and disease even faster among the animals.

On the smaller, local, organic farms I support, farmers let their cows graze naturally on grass. They have less waste on this diet and there aren't millions packed into a small space.

[fallout2600]

On the smaller, local, organic farms I support, farmers let their cows graze naturally on grass. They have less waste on this diet and there aren't millions packed into a small space.

You know this as fact? You have driven to the farm and taken a look?

[HD MM]

You know this as fact? You have driven to the farm and taken a look?

Grass fed beef is available at stores (Whole Foods) and farmers markets. At the grocery stores you can find this information on labels. At the markets, yes, I've talked to the farmers. The wife and I have a scheduled meeting with a local farm in the coming weeks to purchase a CSA share. For those of you who don't know, a CSA share allows you, for a fee, to purchase a share of the farms bounty. Each week, you go to the farm or drop zone and they fill you up with enough produce, eggs, meat, etc to get by for the week. By doing this, we now know exactly where our food comes from, how it's produced, how the livestock graze and if anything is put on the produce (pesticides, etc.)

We are trying to cut off all ties to processed foods, grain fed beef and pesticide laden produce. This is our first step...

[fallout2600]

Grass fed beef is available at stores (Whole Foods) and farmers markets. At the grocery stores you can find this information on labels. At the markets, yes, I've talked to the farmers. The wife and I have a scheduled meeting with a local farm in the coming weeks to purchase a CSA share. For those of you who don't know, a CSA share allows you, for a fee, to purchase a share of the farms bounty. Each week, you go to the farm or drop zone and they fill you up with enough produce, eggs, meat, etc to get by for the week. By doing this, we now know exactly where our food comes from, how it's produced, how the livestock graze and if anything is put on the produce (pesticides, etc.)

We are trying to cut off all ties to processed foods, grain fed beef and pesticide laden produce. This is our first step...

A CSA share sounds very interesting....I've never heard of that...good stuff

[HD MM]

A CSA share sounds very interesting....I've never heard of that...good stuff

Here's a link to find Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) near you...

http://www.localharvest.org/csa/

[fallout2600]

Here's a link to find Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) near you...

http://www.localharvest.org/csa/

thanks for the link...

[markh]

Posted by Bear:


Pasteurization does not destroy any of the nutrients that you think your getting from cow milk. Actually I think cow milk is not only NOT beneficial for humans I think in fresh form its bad for us. At least in the sense that we think we are getting nutrients we are not and not eating the things we should because we been led to believe a glass of milk gives you what you need. So we actually get deficient. Goat is closer to human milk but still not great.. Most nutrients, including calcium, is not in a form we can absorb. We don't have the same number of stomachs, PH level and digestive systen cow/calf's have. Our calcium, D, and E should come from the same place a cow gets it from.. The soil via green plants and the sun. Even cows don't drink milk.

Its nothing but a big scam to sell that unused milk that at one time was thrown away from the taking and butchering of the calf (veal) for meat. The cow had to be milked to keep it producing. But there is just so much of a market for cheeses and now ice cream. Yeah people drank it because it was wrongly considered a food, and it was readily available and cheap.. I'm not saying its bad for you unless you depend on it as your sole source of nutrition, but it has very little if any food value other than it tastes good cold. Its fill... And ...Its like lager beer. Warm beer and warm cow milk taste like skunk piss. (to me)

A few things about what you said:

1. Nobody is saying milk is the only thing you should drink, it provides a good source of calcium that is able to be absorbed by the human body.

2. A baby calf does not ruminate, it's stomach works like ours, not an adult cow's.

3. Humans began drinking milk 6500-7500 years ago. They weren't drinking milk as a scam because they butchered a calf for veal. Milk is one of the reasons your ancestors were able to survive.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090827202513.htm


Many reasons have been put forward for why being able to drink fresh milk should be such an advantage. For example, milk can compensate for the lack of sunlight and synthesis of vitamin D in skin at more northern latitudes, since vitamin D is required for calcium absorption and milk provides a good dietary source of both nutrients. Milk also provides a calorie- and protein-rich food source, comes in a relatively constant supply compared to the boom-and-bust of seasonal crops, and would have been less contaminated than water supplies.

[HDRoberts]

Hey, folks, I just noticed that Food Inc. is now available with Netflix Streaming (in HD, too). Now you can check out this film, without blowing a spot in the queue.

Also, there as a woman that is attempting to go a month without using anything that might owe it's existence to Monsanto. It's scary how hard a time she is having, that one company has it's hands in so much.

http://www.naturalfoodlist.com/articles/?p=566
http://web.me.com/aprildavila/MWM/Blog/Blog.html
http://twitter.com/WithoutMonsanto

[HD MM]

Thread Bump...

Attention all. Food Inc. will be airing on PBS starting tomorrow (April 21st). If you haven't seen it yet, check it out. Very eye opening documentary. Check here for the schedule...

http://www.pbs.org/pov/tvschedule/

[Madtown HD Junkie]

i will tivo that....ty