what's wrong with this

[iceturkee]

so ms disabled veteran will not get a pay raise in 2010. but donald fehr, outgoing director of mlb players union, gets an $11 million severence package. i almost vomit when i heard this on espn tuesday night.

i don't even know where to begin.

[msmith198025]

Gov vs private (more or less).

[iceturkee]

i understand that. but this seems like another perfect example of what the heck is going on? i know this problem has existed for years. but i guess in this economy, i have to question the rationale of this....like i would question the rationale of any similar situation.

[HD MM]

I'm not getting a raise either this year. :(

[NickG420]

Boo Hoo!!...:pleur:Cry me a river...

Why is everyone so obsessed with how much money someone else is making or how much of a bonus someone else is getting?? Do you actually believe that because they are getting such a huge salary or bonus, it must be the reason you are receiving such a low salary or not getting a raise?

I don't care how much money people make unless that person is me, and in that department I do just fine...

[bruce]

Why is everyone so obsessed with how much money someone else is making or how much of a bonus someone else is getting?? Do you actually believe that because they are getting such a huge salary or bonus, it must be the reason you are receiving such a low salary or not getting a raise?

Agreed, and just think of the taxes he will have to pay on that $11 million dollars that goes towards paying for....never mind :026:

[iceturkee]

Boo Hoo!!...:pleur:Cry me a river...

Why is everyone so obsessed with how much money someone else is making or how much of a bonus someone else is getting?? Do you actually believe that because they are getting such a huge salary or bonus, it must be the reason you are receiving such a low salary or not getting a raise?

I don't care how much money people make unless that person is me, and in that department I do just fine...


i think you totally missed my point. i serve my country for over 11 years and am injured in the line of duty. thanks to a crappy economy, i get no pay raise and struggle to make it on less than $20,000 a year through no fault of my own.

but a longtime professional sports exec gets an eleven million dollar severence package when thousands of people are unemployed? the only thing i'm obsessed with is equality.


btw, buddy, my only source of income is a monthly check i receive from the veterans administration. you really don't want to get me going about this, trust me.

[HD MM]

You deserve more Ice. 20k a year is not a satisfactory amount to expect anybody to live on, much less a veteran. Thank you for your past services and hang in there if you can. :hatsoff::flag:

[msmith198025]

i think you totally missed my point. i serve my country for over 11 years and am injured in the line of duty. thanks to a crappy economy, i get no pay raise and struggle to make it on less than $20,000 a year through no fault of my own.

but a longtime professional sports exec gets an eleven million dollar severence package when thousands of people are unemployed? the only thing i'm obsessed with is equality.


btw, buddy, my only source of income is a monthly check i receive from the veterans administration. you really don't want to get me going about this, trust me.

I understand your concern about your benefits. I think all of our armed forces personel should be taken care of as best we can, in service or not.:thumbup:

I do have a hard time seeing the relation between that and what a sports exec (or anyone else) is making though. If they want to pay him that, I have no problem with it. They can pay it because WE support it. If people quit going to games, quit watching on tv, and quit buying the merchandise, the pay would go down.

Sorry, I see them as two totally unrelated things.

[HDRoberts]

Hey, I agree you should get more, but because you are a human, not a veteran.

I may not be a veteran, but I am a civil servant. I'm getting no raise, either. Unless you were drafted, you chose to go to war. While you are respected, that doesn't buy you any more respect from me than anyone else.

[Bear Paws]

Hey, I agree you should get more, but because you are a human, not a veteran.

I may not be a veteran, but I am a civil servant. I'm getting no raise, either. Unless you were drafted, you chose to go to war. While you are respected, that doesn't buy you any more respect from me than anyone else.
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/mad/boese014.gif
Don't equate civil servant with veteran unless your a cop or firefighter. We know your probably a parasitic civil servant, not someone that "chose" to serve and protect with honor like a cop or firefighter. We feel no loss from your lack of "more" respect. However don't fret, you can sit at home and suck in safety your ill gotten largess while we would still "chose" risking going to war to protect your selfish ass.

[HD MM]

That was a pretty selfish comment HDRoberts. Boo for you. :thumbdown:

[iceturkee]

I understand your concern about your benefits. I think all of our armed forces personel should be taken care of as best we can, in service or not.:thumbup:

I do have a hard time seeing the relation between that and what a sports exec (or anyone else) is making though. If they want to pay him that, I have no problem with it. They can pay it because WE support it. If people quit going to games, quit watching on tv, and quit buying the merchandise, the pay would go down.

Sorry, I see them as two totally unrelated things.



i guess i have a problem with what we pay most of our professional athletes. i know its been accepted for a long period of time but, again, we are in tough economic times. i guess it falls into the category of entertainment....just like we pay actors such high salaries.

[iceturkee]

That was a pretty selfish comment HDRoberts. Boo for you. :thumbdown:


i agree.

[msmith198025]

i guess i have a problem with what we pay most of our professional athletes. i know its been accepted for a long period of time but, again, we are in tough economic times. i guess it falls into the category of entertainment....just like we pay actors such high salaries.

Dont get me wrong, I think they are overpaid as well, but good for them if they find someone willing to pay them that much to do what they do.

But again, they are overpaid because we buy the product, no other reason.

[HDRoberts]

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/mad/boese014.gif
Don't equate civil servant with veteran unless your a cop or firefighter. We know your probably a parasitic civil servant, not someone that "chose" to serve and protect with honor like a cop or firefighter. We feel no loss from your lack of "more" respect. However don't fret, you can sit at home and suck in safety your ill gotten largess while we would still "chose" risking going to war to protect your selfish ass.

Yep, we know people that give us our drinking water are parasites taking your money. Forget the water we provide for under a penny a gallon, and go get the free market solution of dollar a gallon water.

Yep, those that didn't go to Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan to fight pointless wars are "selfish." :augentreher: If you ask me, none of those was made me any safer, the latter two probably less safe.

And, indeed, I get no "largess", but I do work for what I get. I don't know where you get the idea that because I'm in favor of social programs means I'm a recipient of them. Hardly.

The fact is, I'm tired of all this "bow before the Holy veteran" crap. Yes, you served your country. Thank you. But you volunteered, and agreed to be paid a certain amount, and you agreed on how it was determined. Take it and move on. Or fight if you want. But don't act like you deserve to be paid more just because your a veteran. Getting what you deserve should be something all people get, not just veterans.

[markh]

Maybe he's one of the civil servants who make sure you get your Social Security check or iceturkee gets her pay from the VA. In return he gets called a parasite. I don't know him but I'm sure he's a guy doing a job that needs to be done and getting paid much less than Fehr and what he makes is "ill gotten largess" while Donald Fehr deserves every penny he made plus the $11 million they're paying him as a parting gift. I believe in capitalism as much as anybody but it can't survive with the disparity in income that we're getting to.

[iceturkee]

Yep, we know people that give us our drinking water are parasites taking your money. Forget the water we provide for under a penny a gallon, and go get the free market solution of dollar a gallon water.

Yep, those that didn't go to Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan to fight pointless wars are "selfish." :augentreher: If you ask me, none of those was made me any safer, the latter two probably less safe.

And, indeed, I get no "largess", but I do work for what I get. I don't know where you get the idea that because I'm in favor of social programs means I'm a recipient of them. Hardly.

The fact is, I'm tired of all this "bow before the Holy veteran" crap. Yes, you served your country. Thank you. But you volunteered, and agreed to be paid a certain amount, and you agreed on how it was determined. Take it and move on. Or fight if you want. But don't act like you deserve to be paid more just because your a veteran. Getting what you deserve should be something all people get, not just veterans.


i'm not saying i deserve to be paid more, just a salary equal to the amount of time i served and the degree of my disability.

and quite frankly, you are clueless.

[iceturkee]

Yep, we know people that give us our drinking water are parasites taking your money. Forget the water we provide for under a penny a gallon, and go get the free market solution of dollar a gallon water.

Yep, those that didn't go to Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan to fight pointless wars are "selfish." :augentreher: If you ask me, none of those was made me any safer, the latter two probably less safe.

And, indeed, I get no "largess", but I do work for what I get. I don't know where you get the idea that because I'm in favor of social programs means I'm a recipient of them. Hardly.

The fact is, I'm tired of all this "bow before the Holy veteran" crap. Yes, you served your country. Thank you. But you volunteered, and agreed to be paid a certain amount, and you agreed on how it was determined. Take it and move on. Or fight if you want. But don't act like you deserve to be paid more just because your a veteran. Getting what you deserve should be something all people get, not just veterans.


btw, some veterans were drafted...it wasn't their choice, unless they wanted to go to jail or to canada.

[Bear Paws]

so ms disabled veteran will not get a pay raise in 2010. but donald fehr, outgoing director of mlb players union, gets an $11 million severence package. i almost vomit when i heard this on espn tuesday night.

i don't even know where to begin.Sweetie..I don't even know where to start.

You are not getting a "raise" because cost of living (nationally) has not gone up.. (And your idol has broken the piggy bank but that's another story.)
Unlike Fehr, you have not done anything to increase the value of others that warrants compensation. Especially by contract. That said, its none of anyone's business what private sector earns for salary or bonus. It does not come out of your pocket unless you are a MLB player and contribute money in some way to the union. He apparently improved his unions membership's value and gained private member approval in order to be compensated for it.

You and I have been over this many many times. Life is hard and you do with it what you can.. The more you do with it the more it will reward you with what ever you consider important. I have often suggested you find something you like or want to do and put it to good use. You hands and mind are not wheel chair bound (as your mouth, ears and eyes are not). Feeling sorry for yourself will never make your or my life better.

What.. I got to come down there and straighten you out? Snap to soldier.
Love ya...Bear..

[Bear Paws]

Maybe he's one of the civil servants who make sure you get your Social Security check or iceturkee gets her pay from the VA. In return he gets called a parasite. I don't know him but I'm sure he's a guy doing a job that needs to be done and getting paid much less than Fehr and what he makes is "ill gotten largess" while Donald Fehr deserves every penny he made plus the $11 million they're paying him as a parting gift. I believe in capitalism as much as anybody but it can't survive with the disparity in income that we're getting to.
You been in one of those agencies and watched them "work"?? If they don't look like a pile of parasitic good ole boys I don't know what does... And that's just arrogantly out in the open for you to see..what goes on ( or doesn't) behind the scenes for billions or trillions of dollars??

I don't doubt there is a job that needs to be done. One guy to test the water and 200 more to watch him do it.


The survival of Capitalism and the Union is threatened because of the disparity in government aka, civil service. We can hear the sucking sound.... and its getting louder.

Rather than worry about millions in bonus and compensation in the private capitalist sector, try concerning yourself with the millions politicians and cronies are making in the tax paid government sector. You really think a public servants deserves millions in compensation? To get rich beyond imagine or 100%+ full med retirement for life just for serving in public office? You've been deflected..

[HDRoberts]

i'm not saying i deserve to be paid more, just a salary equal to the amount of time i served and the degree of my disability.

and quite frankly, you are clueless.

That's fine, but if that is the case, you shouldn't preface your statements with "so ms disabled veteran." That sounds to me so much like one of these celebrities pulling a "Don't you know who I am?"

Maybe just say "so my disability benefits don't go up, but..."

[fallout2600]

The fact is, I'm tired of all this "bow before the Holy veteran" crap. Yes, you served your country. Thank you. But you volunteered, and agreed to be paid a certain amount, and you agreed on how it was determined. Take it and move on. Or fight if you want. But don't act like you deserve to be paid more just because your a veteran. Getting what you deserve should be something all people get, not just veterans.

I disagree big time! I got no problem with vets getting bigger $s for the duty they have/will serve(d) for our country. Regardless of the politics of war, they get put in nasty positions sometimes and HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT. They may be understaffed, don't have enough bullets or armor...all the things normal every day Americans take for granted. Our troops in Afg are getting pinned down as we speak b/c the President can't make a decision. If one of those troops comes home hurt b/c politics blew off his leg and gave him brain damage, should we leave him out to dry? He/She probably joined the military to kick ass and take names, not be a sitting duck. Maybe they don't have mental capacity left to be a civil servant like you or hold other jobs b/c of the shit they have seen and done. That being said, show our Vets some respect.....

[HDRoberts]

I disagree big time! I got no problem with vets getting bigger $s for the duty they have/will serve(d) for our country. Regardless of the politics of war, they get put in nasty positions sometimes and HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT. They may be understaffed, don't have enough bullets or armor...all the things normal every day Americans take for granted. Our troops in Afg are getting pinned down as we speak b/c the President can't make a decision. If one of those troops comes home hurt b/c politics blew off his leg and gave him brain damage, should we leave him out to dry? He/She probably joined the military to kick ass and take names, not be a sitting duck. Maybe they don't have mental capacity left to be a civil servant like you or hold other jobs b/c of the shit they have seen and done. That being said, show our Vets some respect.....

I never said I didn't respect them. I said i don't give them any extra. Maybe draftees can get some extra, but the rest are volunteers. Don't like what the army is offering, get another job. Thought you get to "kick ass and take names", then you should have done more research.

I feel like George Costanza in "The Andrea Doria" episode.

And, more people against governemnt spending who want to spend more on the millitary. *sigh*

[msmith198025]

Why would a draftee get more respect than a volunteer?

[HDRoberts]

Why would a draftee get more respect than a volunteer?

Because they didn't volunteer. They lacked the choice the others have.

[msmith198025]

Because they didn't volunteer. They lacked the choice the others have.

And that earns them more respect?

Sorry I do not agree.

Personally, I think both should get due respect, but if an argument could be made, in my mind, a volunteer knows what they are getting into, knows they man die for it, and does it anyway. That is admirable. Not to diminish those drafted at all.

[Bear Paws]

I disagree big time! I got no problem with vets getting bigger $s for the duty they have/will serve(d) for our country. Regardless of the politics of war, they get put in nasty positions sometimes and HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT. They may be understaffed, don't have enough bullets or armor...all the things normal every day Americans take for granted. Our troops in Afg are getting pinned down as we speak b/c the President can't make a decision. If one of those troops comes home hurt b/c politics blew off his leg and gave him brain damage, should we leave him out to dry? He/She probably joined the military to kick ass and take names, not be a sitting duck. Maybe they don't have mental capacity left to be a civil servant like you or hold other jobs b/c of the shit they have seen and done. That being said, show our Vets some respect.....We are used to the misplaced blame and disrespect from guys like HD Robert. I had a problem with him equating "his" service to that of Icey's. That truely is the height of disrespect.

If HDR got injured on the job turning a 2" valve you know he would be on full retirement ....err... disability at 100% pay plus a 2 million $ settlement and still whining.. . Most of these "city" guys are constantly looking to get hurt just a little bit. Cha Ching$$$$

Oh.. Obama has made a decision alright. He is of a HD Roberts mind set when it comes to the disrespect and dismissible of the military.. Obama has made a decision to serve the military last... after his political ambitions are served and if need be at the expense of the military to gain power. He would not hesitate to send the military into Fox News Headquarters if he thought he was in Chavez's authoritative totalitarian position. Give him time. Soon, when some crises occurs where he thinks he can get away with "national emergency" and call for marshal law and shut down Fox and the internet.

I don't mean to disparage to much on guys like HD Roberts but most civil servant jobs I see, unless they are a bonafide real engineers, don't require superior mental capacity to just show up and collect the check. Signing their name may be a problem for most of them..

[Skyhi]

The water/sewer departments throughout the country are of critical importance.

[msmith198025]

The water/sewer departments throughout the country are of critical importance.

No doubt about that.

[Skyhi]

No doubt about that.
I think members of the military are braver than water department employees, but I believe the services provided by each are of equal importance.

[HDRoberts]

We are used to the misplaced blame and disrespect from guys like HD Robert. I had a problem with him equating "his" service to that of Icey's. That truely is the height of disrespect.

If HDR got injured on the job turning a 2" valve you know he would be on full retirement ....err... disability at 100% pay plus a 2 million $ settlement and still whining.. . Most of these "city" guys are constantly looking to get hurt just a little bit. Cha Ching$$$$

Oh.. Obama has made a decision alright. He is of a HD Roberts mind set when it comes to the disrespect and dismissible of the military.. Obama has made a decision to serve the military last... after his political ambitions are served and if need be at the expense of the military to gain power. He would not hesitate to send the military into Fox News Headquarters if he thought he was in Chavez's authoritative totalitarian position. Give him time. Soon, when some crises occurs where he thinks he can get away with "national emergency" and call for marshal law and shut down Fox and the internet.

I don't mean to disparage to much on guys like HD Roberts but most civil servant jobs I see, unless they are a bonafide real engineers, don't require superior mental capacity to just show up and collect the check. Signing their name may be a problem for most of them..

I don't "blame" troops, nor do I "equate" be service (but I do equate myself, as indeed Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln said, "all men are created equal"). I merely say veterans have no special right to be fairly compensated, rather EVERYONE does.

And, yes, I am a bonafide real engineer. A civil engineer in fact. Taking the PE test next year.

[Bear Paws]

The water/sewer departments throughout the country are of critical importance. Yeah.. right up there with the rest of the saints like lawyers and politicians.
I haven't busted your stones in a while.:)

[Bear Paws]

I don't "blame" troops, nor do I "equate" be service (but I do equate myself, as indeed Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln said, "all men are created equal"). I merely say veterans have no special right to be fairly compensated, rather EVERYONE does.

And, yes, I am a bonafide real engineer. A civil engineer in fact. Taking the PE test next year.Careful. You may have to actually do work if you do that. You will be the guy that drives up in his air conditioned Yukon with a roll of prints and tells the 20 odd guys hanging around on bent shovel handles to tell the back hoe operator to dig a 4x4 hole here..X ...then fill it back up. Then you go on break.

[HDRoberts]

I think members of the military are braver than water department employees, but I believe the services provided by each are of equal importance.

Thank you. I'm not saying I'm brave for working at the water department (although I do have to say some of our meter readers are brave for the areas of town they have to go in). I'm just saying fair pay is what all deserve, not just veterans.

The fact is, millions of Americas will see no raise.

Quite frankly Ice, which would you rather have, me telling you that you deserve a raise, just not because you are a veteran, but because you are a human, or Bear, taking about his respect for you, but regarding your raise, simply saying straighten up, soldier, sorry but you don't get one?

[HDRoberts]

Careful. You may have to actually do work if you do that.

I'm already managing an $85M project. Can't be that much more work. :)

[Skyhi]

Yeah.. right up there with the rest of the saints like lawyers and politicians.
I haven't busted your stones in a while.:)

Well that goes without saying! :D :D Without lawyers and elected officials we'd descend into anarchy. They are the cornerstone of our whole democracy.

[Skyhi]

I'm already managing an $85M project. Can't be that much more work. :)

So THAT is why my water rates have gone up dramatically over the past few years!

[NickG420]

I merely say veterans have no special right to be fairly compensated, rather EVERYONE does.

So am I correct in assuming your argument is that it is "unfair" that some people make millions of dollars a year and others do not?

If I am correct in my assumption, then please explain to me what's unfair about that? I just don't understand it.

[HDRoberts]

So am I correct in assuming your argument is that it is "unfair" that some people make millions of dollars a year and others do not?

While some people are compensated too high, but that is far from a rule. I;m fine with the money Bill Gates and Warren Buffet make, for instance. My problem is cutting employee pay, or exporting jobs, then giving yourself a bonus for saving the company money.

But, no, that does not mean I think everyone should be paid the same.

[NickG420]

While some people are compensated too high, but that is far from a rule. I;m fine with the money Bill Gates and Warren Buffet make, for instance. My problem is cutting employee pay, or exporting jobs, then giving yourself a bonus for saving the company money.

But, no, that does not mean I think everyone should be paid the same.

I never said paid the same, I said unfairly paid. Paid the same would be an entirely different argument.

So why is Warren Buffet and Bill Gates ok? Because they donate graciously to charities? Surely you do not think they are above exporting jobs, or cutting employees if need be, and they certainly are not going to take any less of a salary because of those cuts. So I am not sure what your argument is.

So using your example of cutting employees or exporting jobs, do you believe a company should automatically keep paying an American employee to do a job that a Japanese employee can do better an cheaper simply because he is an American. If so that certainly goes against your equality belief. The Japanese man would be without work simply for being Japanese. So if this CEO does decide it is far better to pay the Japanese guy to do this job and it saves the company 100 million dollars, what's wrong with giving said CEO 10 million of it for saving the company money?

I just fail to see the problem.

[HD MM]

I'm already managing an $85M project. Can't be that much more work. :)

You have anything to do with the NEORSD Southerly Project? My company is bidding on that upcoming work.

[vurbano]

so ms disabled veteran will not get a pay raise in 2010. but donald fehr, outgoing director of mlb players union, gets an $11 million severence package. i almost vomit when i heard this on espn tuesday night.

i don't even know where to begin.

so? I didnt get a raise either. Many are lucky just to have a job. The man has a big time job. Good for him. Stop your crying. If you want everyone to get an equal raise then go find yourself a nice communist country

[msmith198025]

I didnt get a pay raise either, and I am pretty much a boss.

That said, what Ice said she gets (I have no basis to say it is true or not, just taking her at her word, I have no reason to doubt it) is not something I think our disabled veterans should have to scrape by on. Just my opinion.

However, I have no problem with people in the private sector being paid what people will pay them. I dont find the relation there.

[iceturkee]

Sweetie..I don't even know where to start.

You are not getting a "raise" because cost of living (nationally) has not gone up.. (And your idol has broken the piggy bank but that's another story.)
Unlike Fehr, you have not done anything to increase the value of others that warrants compensation. Especially by contract. That said, its none of anyone's business what private sector earns for salary or bonus. It does not come out of your pocket unless you are a MLB player and contribute money in some way to the union. He apparently improved his unions membership's value and gained private member approval in order to be compensated for it.

You and I have been over this many many times. Life is hard and you do with it what you can.. The more you do with it the more it will reward you with what ever you consider important. I have often suggested you find something you like or want to do and put it to good use. You hands and mind are not wheel chair bound (as your mouth, ears and eyes are not). Feeling sorry for yourself will never make your or my life better.

What.. I got to come down there and straighten you out? Snap to soldier.
Love ya...Bear..



i am quite aware that any raise i receive yearly is cost of living based on the economy.

i am also aware that the private sector can pay their top managers whatever salary they deem duable based on the organization's budget.

i wasn't bitching about not getting a cola raise for 2010. again, i was trying to point out what i perceive is a lack of equity.

we are in tough economic times. i know a lot of umemployed people who would have loved to receive an eleven million severence package when they were laid off.

i understand fehr had been with the union over 20 years and deserved a lovely parting gift, not $11 million......especially when a large percentage of americans either are unemployed or will receive no pay raise anytime soon.

[HDRoberts]

You have anything to do with the NEORSD Southerly Project? My company is bidding on that upcoming work.

Nope, NEORSD is separate. Actually, aside from the incinerators, I'm not sure what all is going on there.

[NickG420]

i understand fehr had been with the union over 20 years and deserved a lovely parting gift, not $11 million......especially when a large percentage of americans either are unemployed or will receive no pay raise anytime soon.

I'm sorry but I still do not understand your correlation...What does him receiving $11 million have to do with the unemployment rate? Surely you are not suggesting his severance package is the reason some people are being laid off, or has any effect on whether another person receives their pay or not.

If that was the case there would be many unhappy ball players right now...

[msmith198025]

But ice, who are we to tell them what he should get? I mean you arent actually doing that, but in a way you are. You said he doesnt deserve it, because so many americans are out of work.

I dont see how those two things are related. If he is doing his job, or was doing his job, why would others not working have any bearing on his level of compensation? I mean people being out of work, while tragic, is not really a concern of the MLB players union is it? And it certianly did not have an impact on how he fulfilled his duties.

[iceturkee]

my idol? how has the secretary of state broken the piggy bank?

[iceturkee]

Thank you. I'm not saying I'm brave for working at the water department (although I do have to say some of our meter readers are brave for the areas of town they have to go in). I'm just saying fair pay is what all deserve, not just veterans.

The fact is, millions of Americas will see no raise.

Quite frankly Ice, which would you rather have, me telling you that you deserve a raise, just not because you are a veteran, but because you are a human, or Bear, taking about his respect for you, but regarding your raise, simply saying straighten up, soldier, sorry but you don't get one?


my head is already spinning without any extra help.

again, my original post was intended to point out the lack of equity between the private and government sectors, especially in these economic times.

i'm not happy but i can live without my cola for 2010. but i also believe fehr can live without his ridiculous severnce package.

[HDRoberts]

again, my original post was intended to point out the lack of equity between the private and government sectors, especially in these economic times.

i'm not happy but i can live without my cola for 2010. but i also believe fehr can live without his ridiculous severnce package.

I can agree. I just disagreed with what I thought you were trying to do with your first 3 words.

[iceturkee]

I can agree. I just disagreed with what I thought you were trying to do with your first 3 words.


not a problem

[Bear Paws]

Quite frankly Ice, which would you rather have, me telling you that you deserve a raise, just not because you are a veteran, but because you are a human, or Bear, taking about his respect for you, but regarding your raise, simply saying straighten up, soldier, sorry but you don't get one? The last thing she needs is some military hating extreme left wing fascist peace-nick utopias government loving public servant telling her that she is just another human being incapable of taking care of herself and deserves what amounts to a pittance from the government to live in equal poverty. You liberals have created and perpetuated the cultural prison of slavery of welfare both in the civilian and VA systems.

What she needs is the encouragement to pick herself up, dust off and be all she can. Lead again rather than follow.. Like I know she is capable of and can because she did it before. She is better than being dependent and allowing the control over her which the liberal system has done to her. She is a soldier.

If I could I would want her to hate me as much as she hated her DS in boot. That's how much I care for her. We are brother and sister...We are soldiers.

[iceturkee]

bear, i never hated my ds in basic. and we had both male and female ds since i was in the second wave of women who completed their basic at ft jackson, sc....instead of ft mcclellan, ala.

[Bear Paws]

bear, i never hated my ds in basic. and we had both male and female ds since i was in the second wave of women who completed their basic at ft jackson, sc....instead of ft mcclellan, ala. You know what I mean... Most good soldiers didn't really hate the people that was trying to save their lives. They just "hated" them.

[iceturkee]

ah, honey bear, i would hardly classify a ds as someone saving my life. i think i would reserve that for someone who threw themself in front of a bullet speeding toward my direction.

i would say that by finishing basic training and all my years in the military, it allowed me to become a more grounded person.