Missile shield scrapped

[msmith198025]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090917/ap_on_re_eu/eu_eastern_europe_missile_defense


The Czech prime minister says President Barack Obama has told him that the U.S. is abandoning plans to put a missile shield in the Czech Republic and Poland.

Czech Premier Jan Fischer told reporters in Prague on Thursday that Obama phoned him to say that Washington has decided to scrap the plan that had deeply angered Russia.

[Bob Haller]

good were working with the nations of the world rather than dictating too them.

besides a space based system will likely cost less and work better.

if a terrorist wants to nuke a country or city it wouldnt be coming in on a ICBM, most likely a cargo container equipped with GPS

[msmith198025]

I would love to see the headlines in Russia this morning

[Madtown HD Junkie]

I think this is stupid. anything we can do to protect ourselves and our allies. All we are doing is setting ourselves up for another fall.
Obama is so fricking naive it is sickening. The guy thinks when he speaks everyone listens with abated breath and their knees quiver like a school girl asked to her first prom.

[msmith198025]

I think this is stupid. anything we can do to protect ourselves and our allies. All we are doing is setting ourselves up for another fall.
Obama is so fricking naive it is sickening. The guy thinks when he speaks everyone listen with abated breath and their knees quiver like a school asked to her first prom.


I tihink it is a good idea to talk. For some it works, for some it does not.
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

Putins stock just went up though.

[Skyhi]

I think this is stupid. anything we can do to protect ourselves and our allies. All we are doing is setting ourselves up for another fall.
Obama is so fricking naive it is sickening. The guy thinks when he speaks everyone listen with abated breath and their knees quiver like a school asked to her first prom.

Because provoking another superpower makes us safe? Meddling around in the affairs of other nations in the name of alliances only makes us weak, hated, and vulnerable. On a diplomatic level, the USA should be friendly with all and friends to nobody.

[fallout2600]

Because provoking another superpower makes us safe? Meddling around in the affairs of other nations in the name of alliances only makes us weak, hated, and vulnerable. On a diplomatic level, the USA should be friendly with all and friends to nobody.

:thumbup::thumbup:

Also, Nato says it is a good move:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9AP16O00&show_article=1

[stevenl]

Hey everyone the cold war is over. russia is not the evil empire anymore. We should befriend them. I can think of several other things to spend the billions we were going to spend on this project instead.

[msmith198025]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6838058.ece

Some Europeans are not happy.

However, I would like to hear more about the alternative system that is being considered and recommended by Gates.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

Because provoking another superpower makes us safe? Meddling around in the affairs of other nations in the name of alliances only makes us weak, hated, and vulnerable. On a diplomatic level, the USA should be friendly with all and friends to nobody.

1st, Russia is not a Superpower. 2nd, the purpose of the shield is to protect countries in proximity to Iran and other rogue nations, not threaten Russia. If Russia wanted to attack, given the number of missiles and the exponential number of warheads on each missile, the system Obama shot down would have no effect on their abilities. This is about Obama thinking he can get Russia to capitulate on Iranian sanctions at the cost of newly formed Democracies security. This, at least indirectly, presents the Russians with the thought Georgia's invasion was a warmup where the USA and other will do nothing in the event the great Bear decides on invading another nation ala Poland a couple decades ago.


spineless:thumbdown:

[Skyhi]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6838058.ece

Some Europeans are not happy.

However, I would like to hear more about the alternative system that is being considered and recommended by Gates.
Tough shit.

[Skyhi]

1st, Russia is not a Superpower. 2nd, the purpose of the shield is to protect countries in proximity to Iran and other rogue nations, not threaten Russia. If Russia wanted to attack, given the number of missiles and the exponential number of warheads on each missile, the system Obama shot down would have no effect on their abilities. This is about Obama thinking he can get Russia to capitulate on Iranian sanctions at the cost of newly formed Democracies security. This, at least indirectly, presents the Russians with the thought Georgia's invasion was a warmup where the USA and other will do nothing in the event the great Bear decides on invading another nation ala Poland a couple decades ago.


spineless:thumbdown:
Why is Iran a rogue nation?

[fallout2600]

Tough shit.

Exactly, we already know that Israel is not going to allow Iran to get nukes...so what's the point of a shield that the taxpayer would end up paying for!!!

[msmith198025]

Exactly, we already know that Israel is not going to allow Iran to get nukes...so what's the point of a shield that the taxpayer would end up paying for!!!
Apparently we are still doing a shield. Just not one that pisses off russia.

[stevenl]

1st, Russia is not a Superpower. 2nd, the purpose of the shield is to protect countries in proximity to Iran and other rogue nations, not threaten Russia. If Russia wanted to attack, given the number of missiles and the exponential number of warheads on each missile, the system Obama shot down would have no effect on their abilities. This is about Obama thinking he can get Russia to capitulate on Iranian sanctions at the cost of newly formed Democracies security. This, at least indirectly, presents the Russians with the thought Georgia's invasion was a warmup where the USA and other will do nothing in the event the great Bear decides on invading another nation ala Poland a couple decades ago.


spineless:thumbdown:

We did somthing similiar with Isreal during the first gulf war. Told them to stand down while scuds were being fired at them. Guess what it worked out for all involved.

and I beg to differ about Russia not being a super power. Perhaps not an economic super power. But military super power none the less.

[Bear Paws]

Obamac sold out our Alie's in eastern Europe for the hope of a promise of Russia helping rein in Iran's nuclear program of which the Russians are not capable of nor intent on trying. They historically have violated almost every agreement we have had with therm in the last 75 years. Almost as bad as N Korea and Iran. Putin is playing Obama like a naive gullible fiddle while he makes deals with Iran. This kid is up against a grand master... He is out of his league.

Obama thinks Russian President Dmitry Medvedev will give us aid in resolving the threat from Iran and make the missile shield plans unnecessary. The guy is delusional. Putin is on a mission to control as much oil as possible. While we will be sucking eggs for the never happen in our life time bio fuel and alternates.

For one look at the geography of Iran and Russia. Then look at the Caspian Sea, the oil fields and the Russian refineries. Yeah right.. Russia is going to alienate Iran??Thats Right.

Obama is so arrogent he thinks he wants to show up George W Bush and the last 50 years by having "peace in our time" in the middle east. Especially with Iran. Not only will he not but he will lose Iraq too... .. The modern day Neville Chamberlain. Russia doesn't need to beat us. We will capitulate with our apology tour. And lose the only friends we have left. The recovering Communist Block Euros.

The middle east blows up, we lose with no freinds and no where to base out of. Especially if as I predict we lose Iraq too. We will rue this day. What have you done Barry???

[fallout2600]

Apparently we are still doing a shield. Just not one that pisses off russia.

It seems smart to me, Israel or the US is about to bomb Iran, we might want Russia in our backpocket....

[Bob Haller]

LONG term iraq is lost anyway despite all the money and lives bush wasted there:(

Just watch and wait a few years you WILL see what I mean:(

[msmith198025]

It seems smart to me, Israel or the US is about to bomb Iran, we might want Russia in our backpocket....

Maybe I misunderstood your point.
You said, what is the point of a shield that the taxpayers have to pay for.
Then it is smart to have the alternative?
Don't we still have to pay for it?

Again, it is possible I misunderstood your point.

[fallout2600]

Maybe I misunderstood your point.
You said, what is the point of a shield that the taxpayers have to pay for.
Then it is smart to have the alternative?
Don't we still have to pay for it?

Again, it is possible I misunderstood your point.

Ok, I agree with Obama not wasting time or money on the shield. As I don't think Iran is planning on launching missiles at Poland!!

I don't believe we are going to provide an alternative.

Seems like Russia, NATO, and the US are going at it together:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090918/ap_on_re_eu/eu_nato_russia

[Skyhi]

If Poland and the Czech Republic want a shield, they can do it themselves. The USA is broke, correct?

[msmith198025]

It was not abom launching anything at poland though. That's just where we were going to put hardware.

Ill check you link when I get to my computer, but I bet we make the biggest chunk of this . And it may be a better plan. Just don't know yet

[Madtown HD Junkie]

Tough shit.
I thought we were suppose to care what people thought and work with people now that Obama was in charge?

[Skyhi]

I thought we were suppose to care what people thought and work with people now that Obama was in charge?

If you mean not launching preemptive wars under false pretenses, then I'm with you.

I agree with George W Bush's sentiments when he was running for President in 2000: stop playing world police.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090918/ap_on_re_eu/eu_eastern_europe_missile_defense_22

Guess Poland and The Turks aren't so happy after all.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

If you mean not launching preemptive wars under false pretenses, then I'm with you.

I agree with George W Bush's sentiments when he was running for President in 2000: stop playing world police.

for the love of God, let it go....:free-sick-smileys-1

[Skyhi]

for the love of God, let it go....:free-sick-smileys-1

This is a HUGE deal and I am not being a partisan. Notice I didn't pull a haller and blame Bush? He had plenty of co-conspirators.

We have been at war for 6.5 years over there!! The reason we went turned out to be non-existent. Some people say the administration trumped up the charges against sadaam. Others say it was an (epic) intelligence failure. Either way you look at it, its really f*'d up. Our government has spend billions in dollars and 1000s in lives over a mistake.

Republican, Democrat, or Independent should NEVER let this go. Our leaderSSS have betrayed our trust when it mattered the most. This should never be forgotten because it should never happen again.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

The war was over in a month or so....winning the peace took a couple years and now for the last year + we have been in a support role.

If you are always going to judge every action through the lens of hindsight, I guess every action will always be wrong because of the lack of precognition by humanity as a whole.

All you can do is base decisions on the best information available at the time the decision needs to be made. Every intelligence agency on the planet thought Saddam had WMD. Most every rational person, regardless of party, thought removing Saddam was the right step at that moment in time. The decision was not a mistake. How they went about winning the peace was a mistake IMO.

[fallout2600]

How they went about winning the peace was a mistake IMO.

I will agree to that. Considering even person in the country a terrorist and kicking in their doors in the middle of the night didn't help!

[Skyhi]

The war was over in a month or so....winning the peace took a couple years and now for the last year + we have been in a support role.
The few soldiers I've spoken with that have actually been there would differ. They've told me they were in a hell of a civil war well over a month post-invasion.



If you are always going to judge every action through the lens of hindsight, I guess every action will always be wrong because of the lack of precognition by humanity as a whole.
Not true. None of our other wars were fought under false pretenses....even in hindsight.


All you can do is base decisions on the best information available at the time the decision needs to be made. Every intelligence agency on the planet thought Saddam had WMD.
That's not even close to being true. Some of our closest allies were telling us he intelligence was wrong. Did we listen? No. We decided to call french fries freedom fries instead.

Most every rational person, regardless of party, thought removing Saddam was the right step at that moment in time. The decision was not a mistake. How they went about winning the peace was a mistake IMO.
We want to war because Iraq had WMDs that they were going to use on the USA in the near future. That's the war we were sold. I would argue that most rationale people would NOT have supported this invasion if the only reason was to remove Sadaam.

This war was a disastrous failure that all patriots, regardless of party, should not soon forget. Our leaders have NEVER made such a mistake regarding the decision to go to war. Never.

[Bear Paws]

[QUOTE]The few soldiers I've spoken with that have actually been there would differ. They've told me they were in a hell of a civil war well over a month post-invasion. It was more a revolutionary war.
Civil or revolutionary war we where on the anti Saddam side. The same side that begged us to help overthrow the governing fascist Baath (Nazis) Party after G War 1 and whom we promised to help if they started it. We lied they died.



Not true. None of our other wars were fought under false pretenses....even in hindsight. :026:

That's not even close to being true. Some of our closest allies were telling us he intelligence was wrong. Did we listen? No. We decided to call french fries freedom fries instead. That would be allie (singular) Umm, that would be France?? The anti American socialist Jacques René Chirac to be exact. He knew because he was violating his own precious UN and its resolution to trade in arms with Iraq. He knew he was selling Saddam wet bullits and bent rifles.

Oh... speaking of Yellow Cake, Niger and Joe Phlame (Wilson) . You are aware that Niger has a "special" relationship with France, its old coloniest. Matter of fact the Official language is ..... yes... French as is the curancy is the "franc". Just saying...ya know...


We want to war because Iraq had WMDs that they were going to use on the USA in the near future. That's the war we were sold. I would argue that most rationale people would NOT have supported this invasion if the only reason was to remove Sadaam. THe reason to remove Saddam was secondary. We needed to block Iran from preempting Iraq and we needed to establish a stratigic freindly democracy in the middle east. Sudia Arabia was lost under Clinton.


This war was a disastrous failure that all patriots, regardless of party, should not soon forget. Our leaders have NEVER made such a mistake regarding the decision to go to war. Never. Never?? Not even your much hated and malined Vietnam War? I personally think going into Afganastan to appease the liberal hawks is the biggist war mistake in history. Bush had it right. Go in hard, kick snot, force bin Laden to move his power base and leave. Now we have a war on opium.

[fallout2600]

The BBC doesn't make it sound like Obama's decision was the end of the world:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8264028.stm


The Obama administration's decision to postpone deployment of a missile shield in Eastern Europe in favour of proven regional missile defence systems will provide better protection against Iran's current and near-future capabilities.

Obama's new strategy also contains the flexibility needed to respond to future Iranian missile developments should they emerge.



Also, from the BBC, here is what Gates is saying:


As the Defence Secretary put it: "Those who say we are scrapping the Missile Defence Shield are either misinformed or are misinterpreting reality."



Mr Gates even said that talks were under way that might eventually result in Poland and the Czech Republic hosting new generation missiles - conveniently, though, that would be much further down the road, perhaps somewhere around 2015.

[froggigger]

The BBC doesn't make it sound like Obama's decision was the end of the world:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8264028.stm

Also, from the BBC, here is what Gates is saying:

The Wall Street Journal:

The White House justifies its decision by claiming to have new intelligence showing that Iran's long-range missile capabilities are not as advanced as previously believed. Instead, it intends to upgrade and deploy currently available missile interceptors that are useful mainly for intercepting short- and medium-range missiles, where, it says, Iranian capability "is developing more rapidly than previously projected."

We're all for deploying interceptors to stop Iranian missiles of every range. But the Administration's argument is difficult to credit, not least because our sources told us as early as February that the Administration was prepared to abandon those sites—which is to say, well before the allegedly new intelligence became available.

It's also hard to square the intelligence community's sanguine assessment with Iran's successful launch of the solid-fuel Sejil missile in May. With an estimated range of 1,560 miles, the Sejil could deliver a one-ton payload as far as Warsaw. That cannot be comforting when the International Atomic Energy Agency is now saying that Iran has "sufficient information" to build an atomic bomb and will also "overcome problems" involved in its delivery system.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204518504574418563346840666.html

[fallout2600]

Russia won't deploy missiles:

http://wire.antiwar.com/2009/09/19/minister-russia-wont-deploy-missiles-near-poland/


Most Poles support move:

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE58I0FP20090919


Now, what stance and/or help is Russia going to take/make with Iran????

[froggigger]

Russia won't deploy missiles:

http://wire.antiwar.com/2009/09/19/minister-russia-wont-deploy-missiles-near-poland/


Most Poles support move:

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE58I0FP20090919


Now, what stance and/or help is Russia going to take/make with Iran????

I don't trust any of them, our government included.

[fallout2600]

I don't trust any of them, our government included.

I don't completely trust it either, but something's gotta give here. We can't afford to continue world policing without help from others. We will have to see how it plays out.

[froggigger]

I don't completely trust it either, but something's gotta give here. We can't afford to continue world policing without help from others. We will have to see how it plays out.

It's all a damn mess, that's for sure.

[fallout2600]

It's all a damn mess, that's for sure.

No doubt!

This guy thinks it is all technological:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/gagnon1.1.1.html