Cash for Clunkers ends monday

[msmith198025]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9A6RBR00&show_article=1


The Obama administration plans to end the popular $3 billion Cash for Clunkers program on Monday, giving car shoppers a few more days to take advantage of big government incentives.
The Transportation Department said Thursday the government will wind down the program on Monday at 8 p.m. EDT. Car buyers can receive rebates of $3,500 or $4,500 for trading in older vehicles for new, more fuel-efficient models.

[HD MM]

Great success while it lasted!

[NickG420]

Great success while it lasted!

For who? The dealers who can't get paid or the people who now owe the dealers $4500 because the claim was rejected. What about the kids who are getting just old enough to drive and were looking to buy a used car even if it was a gas guzzler? How about the rise in used car prices this is causing? Is that what you meant by successful?

Or maybe you meant successful as in a socialist program that takes my hard earned money and gives it to washed up car dealerships to help people drive the kind of car the government wants you to drive...Is that what you meant? In that case then yeah I guess it was successful...

[HD MM]

For who? The dealers who can't get paid or the people who now owe the dealers $4500 because the claim was rejected. What about the kids who are getting just old enough to drive and were looking to buy a used car even if it was a gas guzzler? How about the rise in used car prices this is causing? Is that what you meant by successful?

It's revived business at car dealerships and has created demand for new cars to be produced, putting the struggling auto industry back to work. Automakers are scrambling to fill depleted inventories of the Fords, Toyotas and Chevrolets that are the most popular sellers. General Motors has added shifts at some plants to handle the extra demand. The steel plants are firing back up since being idle since earlier on this year. Don't you see the bigger picture here? This program has truly stimulated the economy....


Or maybe you meant successful as in a socialist program that takes my hard earned money and gives it to washed up car dealerships to help people drive the kind of car the government wants you to drive...Is that what you meant? In that case then yeah I guess it was successful...

Believe it or not, a stimulated economy is better for all and this is the sole intention of this program, who many agree with it's success.

[Bear Paws]

For who? The dealers who can't get paid or the people who now owe the dealers $4500 because the claim was rejected. What about the kids who are getting just old enough to drive and were looking to buy a used car even if it was a gas guzzler? How about the rise in used car prices this is causing? Is that what you meant by successful?

Or maybe you meant successful as in a socialist program that takes my hard earned money and gives it to washed up car dealerships to help people drive the kind of car the government wants you to drive...Is that what you meant? In that case then yeah I guess it was successful...

:thumbup:
The banks won't loan more money to the dealers that are owed by the government. The Dealer Floor Plans are collapsing. Even the SBA banks don't trust the government.

[msmith198025]

For who? The dealers who can't get paid or the people who now owe the dealers $4500 because the claim was rejected. What about the kids who are getting just old enough to drive and were looking to buy a used car even if it was a gas guzzler? How about the rise in used car prices this is causing? Is that what you meant by successful?

Or maybe you meant successful as in a socialist program that takes my hard earned money and gives it to washed up car dealerships to help people drive the kind of car the government wants you to drive...Is that what you meant? In that case then yeah I guess it was successful...


It's revived business at car dealerships and has created demand for new cars to be produced, putting the struggling auto industry back to work. Automakers are scrambling to fill depleted inventories of the Fords, Toyotas and Chevrolets that are the most popular sellers. General Motors has added shifts at some plants to handle the extra demand. The steel plants are firing back up since being idle since earlier on this year. Don't you see the bigger picture here? This program has truly stimulated the economy....

Believe it or not, a stimulated economy is better for all and this is the sole intention of this program, who many agree with it's success.

I think the truth to this lies somewhere in the middle.

Nick is probably correct on many of his points. Payments are going out slowly, some may never see them. And yes this will have an impact on the used car market for years to come.

However, HD has a good point as well. It DID get people back in the car dealerships, and the car companies will have to start rebuilding their inventories.

I think we will see short term positive impact from this, with longer term problems (mainly for teens and the middle class)

[NickG420]

It's revived business at car dealerships and has created demand for new cars to be producedI'm sorry, what with all my overtime trying to help stimulate other peoples car dealerships and down payments I must have missed the news story where we had a mass shortage of cars and needed to produce more....

Automakers are scrambling to fill depleted inventories of the Fords, Toyotas and Chevrolets that are the most popular sellers. I have no doubt there are plenty to go around. Maybe not at that particular dealership but Ford and friends have plenty of vehicles already produced to provide.

General Motors has added shifts at some plants to handle the extra demand. The steel plants are firing back up since being idle since earlier on this year. Great but don't you think people would have bought new cars at some point without all this government intervention and this would have happened anyway??

Don't you see the bigger picture here? This program has truly stimulated the economy.... My friend I think it is you who fail to see the "bigger picture". All in the name of "stimulating the economy" and "goodwill", the government has basically bribed the American people with money that they do not have in order to tell you what kind of car you should be driving....Yeah I think I see the big picture just fine.

Believe it or not, a stimulated economy is better for all and this is the sole intention of this program, who many agree with it's success.I completely agree with it's success, just not your opinion of it's sole purpose.

[Skyhi]

I think the truth to this lies somewhere in the middle.

Nick is probably correct on many of his points. Payments are going out slowly, some may never see them. And yes this will have an impact on the used car market for years to come.

However, HD has a good point as well. It DID get people back in the car dealerships, and the car companies will have to start rebuilding their inventories.

I think we will see short term positive impact from this, with longer term problems (mainly for teens and the middle class)

From the article:


The incentives have generated more than 457,000 vehicle sales.

And there are 136 million+ Registered passenger cars in the US and 101 million+ 4-tire trucks.

http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_11.html

I can't see there being much of an impact on the used car market.

[NickG420]

From the article:



And there are 136 million+ Registered passenger cars in the US and 101 million+ 4-tire trucks.

http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_11.html

I can't see there being much of an impact on the used car market.

Maybe not on a national scale...but if you live a rural town with 2 dealerships, and everyone went rushing out to get a new car to have their old one crushed....Poor 16 year old kids will probably be looking elsewhere for a used car.

[msmith198025]

From the article:



And there are 136 million+ Registered passenger cars in the US and 101 million+ 4-tire trucks.

http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_11.html

I can't see there being much of an impact on the used car market.

How many of those are in the price range of the market I was talking about though? I am sure many are, but that is alot of cars taken out IMO.

I do not think it will effect the middle/upper middle much, but I do think it will have an impact on the lower middle/poorer folks. Eventually anyway.

[HDRoberts]

Great but don't you think people would have bought new cars at some point without all this government intervention and this would have happened anyway??

Everything I have seen was quite the opposite. These were people with no plans to buy a new car. Think about it, before, they were driving around cars worth under $4500, likely more than 10 years old, and getting bad mileage. You honestly think most of those people bought them new?

No one in my family has EVER bought a new car since the 1950s. Yet I was seriously looking into it. However, some problems with the program* (besides 2 impending trips overseas squeezing me financially) kept me from pulling the trigger. I won't be looking a new car in the next 3 years, either.


*Problem was that I wanted to use my parents van they wanted rid of. Thing is, the new car would have to go in their name, and if they transferred the title, the warranty would be voided. Plus, they would have to get the loan, not me.

[Skyhi]

Maybe not on a national scale...but if you live a rural town with 2 dealerships, and everyone went rushing out to get a new car to have their old one crushed....Poor 16 year old kids will probably be looking elsewhere for a used car.

If there's enough demand in the rural area, the free market will take care of it. :)

[Skyhi]

How many of those are in the price range of the market I was talking about though? I am sure many are, but that is alot of cars taken out IMO.

I do not think it will effect the middle/upper middle much, but I do think it will have an impact on the lower middle/poorer folks. Eventually anyway.

It could be argued that those who took advantage of the cash for clunkers program would have bought a used car otherwise. Therefore, the diminished demand for used cars will off-set the diminished supply.

[fallout2600]

It's revived business at car dealerships and has created demand for new cars to be produced, putting the struggling auto industry back to work.

But what you fail to admit or see, is the fact that the show ends Monday. After Monday the demand will go right back to where it was b4 Cash for Clunkers. So, it's not a stimulator to the economy. It was the fastest created and popped bubble ever!!! It didn't create any long term jobs.

[NickG420]

Everything I have seen was quite the opposite. These were people with no plans to buy a new car. Think about it, before, they were driving around cars worth under $4500, likely more than 10 years old, and getting bad mileage. You honestly think most of those people bought them new?

No one in my family has EVER bought a new car since the 1950s. Yet I was seriously looking into it. However, some problems with the program* (besides 2 impending trips overseas squeezing me financially) kept me from pulling the trigger. I won't be looking a new car in the next 3 years, either.


*Problem was that I wanted to use my parents van they wanted rid of. Thing is, the new car would have to go in their name, and if they transferred the title, the warranty would be voided. Plus, they would have to get the loan, not me.

I assume I should have been more clear in my argument. I was not talking about the CFC people going out and buying new cars. I was saying the sale of new cars in general to any and all customers. Eventually people will buy news cars at or above the same rate they once were.

[froggigger]

Just wait 6-8 months or so to buy. There will be deals to be had on repossessions when people who couldn't afford a new car payment default.

[NickG420]

The same thing that happened in housing will happen with this program, just on a smaller scale....

The same people who wanted to burn banks down for lending to people who could not afford it, are the same people shouting the praises of this program...Who do you think alot of these people were? I mean if they could have afforded a new car anyway, why didn't they already have one?

Why would anyone right now with the rate people are losing jobs go and take on a new car payment they could not afford before this stupid program?? I'll tell you who...The same people who were renting a house for $500 a month and went a bought a house that was $1200 a month when the interest only option was over....

Just wait the next thing we'll be hearing is the booming market of auto-recovery!

[markh]

What is in this program that requires loans to be given to people that can't afford it? Who's criticizing this program? Guys like the idiot car dealer who called up Limbaugh. Selling cars from a company that got bailed out. Maybe he'd been happier not having cars to sell.

[froggigger]

What is in this program that requires loans to be given to people that can't afford it?

The same requirement that mortgage loans were to be given to people that can't afford it. :rolleyes:

[markh]

Maybe you could show me either of those requirements. The proliferation of shaky mortgages had more to do with Wall Street desperately seeking more loans to package and sell because they were making tons of money on them, until....

There's nothing in C4C that says anybody has to be given a loan.

[Bear Paws]

Maybe you could show me either of those requirements. The proliferation of shaky mortgages had more to do with Wall Street desperately seeking more loans to package and sell because they were making tons of money on them, until....

There's nothing in C4C that says anybody has to be given a loan. No but it gives plenty of government incentive and inducements for the lender to make it work.. Its basically the same as a no money down deals using gifting, transfer of equity or deferred second paper as a down payment to qualify for a 1st mortgage. based on appraised (sticker/MRSP)value.
The (if you can get all of it) 4500 plus any dealer/factory incentives and in some cases "hold backs" is used as a down payment against the car to qualify the loan to value to credit rating criteria. IOW the loan is showing a high down payment where there is none or actually a lot less to qualify the loan of no skin or normally unqualified buyer.. Just like the home loan fiasco. Also the interest rates as well as the terms are manipulated to qualify a unqualified buyer using the non existing (from the buyer) down payment . Pretty much what you guys where complaining about the real estate market was doing.
All the "red lining" and low income rules apply.

[froggigger]

Maybe you could show me either of those requirements. The proliferation of shaky mortgages had more to do with Wall Street desperately seeking more loans to package and sell because they were making tons of money on them, until....

There's nothing in C4C that says anybody has to be given a loan.

Did the point stir a breeze at all when it flew over your head? Of course there were no requirements.