For all you ACLU haters:

[Skyhi]

Here is yet another example of them doing good:


KBZK-TV reported last week that applicants for city jobs were asked for usernames and passwords for the Web sites.

http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090623/ap_on_hi_te/us_internet_background_checks

ACLU pressure helped end this nonsense.

[fallout2600]

I'll give them kudos for it. That's definitely an invasion of privacy.

[vurbano]

I think potential employees should be investigated.

[msmith198025]

I think potential employees should be investigated.

Background checks, sure.
Checking their personal information and conversations on websites? No. Unless it is in the public part of said sites, they have no right to require their passwords and screen names to look at it.

[Skyhi]

I think potential employees should be investigated.

If any employer saw the racist vile you post all over the net, you'd be in trouble. You, of all people, should be thanking the ACLU.

[msmith198025]

If any employer saw the racist vile you post all over the net, you'd be in trouble. You, of all people, should be thanking the ACLU.

In keeping with the topic, anything posted here can be viewed with or without a password. I have no problem with an employer seeing this, it is public for the most part. My problem would be if they wanted to read all of our PMs, and emails, ect. Not that mine are particularly different than what is public, but it is none of their business. So, in this case, the ACLU is doing the right thing.

[Skyhi]

In keeping with the topic, anything posted here can be viewed with or without a password. I have no problem with an employer seeing this, it is public for the most part. My problem would be if they wanted to read all of our PMs, and emails, ect. Not that mine are particularly different than what is public, but it is none of their business. So, in this case, the ACLU is doing the right thing.

I don't think I've said anything damning here, but I like to keep my name anonymous just in case I do. :)

[Bear Paws]

If any employer saw the racist vile you post all over the net, you'd be in trouble. You, of all people, should be thanking the ACLU. Hey hey hey lay off my bud's free speech rights. Speaking of free speech... Watch it...the topic police are watching.:)

[Bear Paws]

Here is yet another example of them doing good:



http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090623/ap_on_hi_te/us_internet_background_checks

ACLU pressure helped end this nonsense. Even a blind squirrel can find a nut once in a while.
It appears the the yahoos at Yahoo news gave more credit to the ACCLU than the Bozeman town/city commission are willing to give them.. http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2009/06/23/news/10city.txt

[msmith198025]

I don't think I've said anything damning here, but I like to keep my name anonymous just in case I do. :)


Hey hey hey lay off my bud's free speech rights. Speaking of free speech... Watch it...the topic police are watching.:)

I am the J.L. of sonic babble:free-happy-smileys-


I dont remember a thing:05:

[stevenl]

The ACLU has done more to protect the rights of EVERY US citizen then any group I can think of.

[Skyhi]

Hey hey hey lay off my bud's free speech rights. Speaking of free speech... Watch it...the topic police are watching.:)

I'm all for vurb being allowed to say anything that is on his mind....if the government tried to restrict him, I'd be the first to defend him.

My point was that he should be happy that the ACLU is fighting to keep some of his communications anonymous (ie not attach his real life name to his vurbano username).

[Skyhi]

The ACLU has done more to protect the rights of EVERY US citizen then any group I can think of.

The ACLU is a great, patriotic organization....they just need a whole lot of help when it comes to PR/image.

[Bear Paws]

The ACLU has done more to protect the rights of EVERY US citizen then any group I can think of.


The ACLU is a great, patriotic organization....they just need a whole lot of help when it comes to PR/image.:free-happy-smileys- yeah, Roger Balldwin, a 1920s progressive communist founded The ACLU (American Communist Lawyers Union). He wrote in his 1928 book, Liberty Under the Soviets, “I joined. I don’t regret being a part of the Communist tactic, which increased the effectiveness of a good cause. I knew what I was doing. I was not an innocent liberal. I wanted what the Communists wanted…” The ACLU has been attached at the hip to the American Communist party since it was reconstituted as the Communist Political Association in 1944 and became its sole official on call pro bono legal arm. For a while during the 50s and 60s the ACLU and the CPA even shared some common officers untill J. Edgar Hoover called the ACLU a Communist front Group in the "Masters of Deceit". That didn't stop the ACLU from openly organizing racial protests and antiwar demonstrations..A little Advocacy outside the courts???

In an article written for Soviet Russia Today (September 1934), Roger Baldwin said: "When the power of the working class is once achieved, as it has been only in the Soviet Union, I am for maintaining it by any means whatsoever." "The class struggle is the central conflict of the world, all others are coincidental." Yeah ...Them lawyers are down for the struggle..

More than a quarter-century after his death, the “legacy” of the ACLU founder Roger Baldwin – a self-professed communist and fan of Soviet style communism and of Joseph Stalin – is still going strong. With the collapse of the Soviet empire, current ACLU leaders have thrown more of their support to one of the last remaining bastions of the Soviet ideal: Cuba. And you guys think they are just so wonderful for protecting your little ole constitutional rights... my arse...your manifesto rights maybe... Show me where I'm wrong...

[stevenl]

Please let me know when they do something that does not protect our rights..

They protect your right to do what your doing right now. Thats very communist of them isnt it...

[Derwin0]

Please let me know when they do something that does not protect our rights.. Let's see, they're fighting to remove the rights of students in Georgia to pray during the daily moment of silence.
They fighting to remove a cross from a large Veteran Memorial outside San Diego.

[HDRoberts]

While employers shouldn't worry about social networking, it cuts both ways. Employees also should be writing derogatory things about their companies.

[Salsadancer7]

Hey hey hey lay off my bud's free speech rights. Speaking of free speech... Watch it...the topic police are watching.:)

There is a TOPIC POLICE HERE??!! :Shh:

[Salsadancer7]

The ACLU has done more to protect the rights of EVERY US citizen then any group I can think of.

Those on the right would NEVER, EVER admit that....:(

[msmith198025]

There is a TOPIC POLICE HERE??!! :Shh:

I would not worry about it;)

[Salsadancer7]

I would not worry about it;)

Hey Smith!:)

Like my big mouth has ever worried about being policed....LOL!

[msmith198025]

Hey Smith!:)

Like my big mouth has ever worried about being policed....LOL!

Lol, I seem to recall....:free-happy-smileys-

[Salsadancer7]

Lol, I seem to recall....:free-happy-smileys-

smartass!:)

[msmith198025]

smartass!:)

Hey, I try:thumbup:

I think we all may have to give up that title now that you are here though :D

[cybok0]

Hey Smith!:)

Like my big mouth has ever worried about being policed....LOL!

You just worry about the police pulling you over.:free-happy-smileys-

[HD MM]

smartass!:)

Oh no. Who let Salsa in this place?! :05: ;)

[msmith198025]

Oh no. Who let Salsa in this place?! :05: ;)

It is all downhill from here

Ok mad, time to shut it down!!!!

[HD MM]

It is all downhill from here

Ok mad, time to shut it down!!!!

Don't do it, your infringing on our rights to free speech!!! :05:

[cybok0]

Oh no. Who let Salsa in this place?! :05: ;)


It is all downhill from here

Ok mad, time to shut it down!!!!

I invited him when Mad opened this place.

[msmith198025]

Don't do it, your infringing on our rights to free speech!!! :05:

oops....:Shh:

[msmith198025]

I invited him when Mad opened this place.

I knew it was something...

[Salsadancer7]

You just worry about the police pulling you over.:free-happy-smileys-

OK....I KNEW sooner or later...the Puerto Rican jokes would come out....:mad::free-happy-smileys-

[cybok0]

OK....I KNEW sooner or later...the Puerto Rican jokes would come out....:mad::free-happy-smileys-

You know I have to welcome you here.:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-

[msmith198025]

OK....I KNEW sooner or later...the Puerto Rican jokes would come out....:mad::free-happy-smileys-

:free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-

[Salsadancer7]

I invited him when Mad opened this place.

THAT was a mistake! LOL!! If people hated me in the sports section for my opinions then....

..."wait till they get a load of me..........!"

[cybok0]

THAT was a mistake! LOL!! If people hated me in the sports section for my opinions then....

..."wait till they get a load of me..........!"

I'm sure Vurb will be glad to see you here.:augentreher:

[Salsadancer7]

I'm sure Vurb will be glad to see you here.:augentreher:

The weirdest thing is in the world is....ever since Vurb discovered why the nickname and my real name...he has been pretty....

...ah...*gulp*....

....civil...!

There, said it...happy now...?!:)

[cybok0]

The weirdest thing is in the world is....ever since Vurb discovered why the nickname and my real name...he has been pretty....

...ah...*gulp*....

....civil...!

There, said it...happy now...?!:)

Sure am Felix.:)

[stevenl]

Let's see, they're fighting to remove the rights of students in Georgia to pray during the daily moment of silence.
They fighting to remove a cross from a large Veteran Memorial outside San Diego.

Id love to see those stories to see what position the aclu is taking and why. Got any sources.

[Derwin0]

Id love to see those stories to see what position the aclu is taking and why. Got any sources.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41617
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15587
http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/04/03/news/nation/doc49d5eb631474d755816602.txt

google is your friend ;)

Also a cross in the Mojave desert that's been there for 75 years
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=100620
http://www.examiner.com/x-2359-Evangelical-Examiner~y2009m6d9-ACLJ-represents-some-in-Congress-over-Mojave-Desert-cross-issue
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=16178

[stevenl]

From your links it seems the ACLU has no problem with the cross itself. The problem is two tings. 1. That the city went around a court ruling by giving the land to the federal government. To subvert an agreement that was made

"As WorldNetDaily reported, earlier this year the Mt. Soledad Memorial Association made a private agreement with the ACLU to remove the cross and relocate it to private property – provoking a lawsuit by a former Navy pilot. "

and 2. That the cross is now on federal land. The ACLU seems to not mind it being put on private land.

I do believe their is also more to the story.. Clearly the 3 sources you provided are not neutral on the matter.. But Ill take them at their word.

Possibly another questionable source but with some more information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Soledad_cross_controversy

So is it a memorial? Or did it only become one to use it as defense?

[Salsadancer7]

From your links it seems the ACLU has no problem with the cross itself. The problem is two tings. 1. That the city went around a court ruling by giving the land to the federal government. To subvert an agreement that was made

"As WorldNetDaily reported, earlier this year the Mt. Soledad Memorial Association made a private agreement with the ACLU to remove the cross and relocate it to private property – provoking a lawsuit by a former Navy pilot. "

and 2. That the cross is now on federal land. The ACLU seems to not mind it being put on private land.

I do believe their is also more to the story.. Clearly the 3 sources you provided are not neutral on the matter.. But Ill take them at their word.

Possibly another questionable source but with some more information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Soledad_cross_controversy

So is it a memorial? Or did it only become one to use it as defense?

He was right...google IS your friend...:)

[Bear Paws]

Please let me know when they do something that does not protect our rights..

They protect your right to do what your doing right now. Thats very communist of them isnt it...Protecting my rights my ass. These commies and their commie agenda took away my and my children's rights to free speech.. As a atheist I'm repulsed by the idea that my grand children may not be allowed to say “…one Nation, under God”.. or say a prayer for their team to win....in school and possibly in public some future day ....thanks to the ACLU ..
But if you think thats right than you and Sky must be ecstatic about their defense of NAMBLA.
This disgusting, vile organization NAMBLA is supported by the ACLU due to freedom of speech?

The ASCLU is just another liberal human-rights group that reliably defends the rights of liberal speakers and ignores most all consrvative speech issues unless it cuts a 2 way benifit.
The protection of free speech was the guiding principle of the aclu in 1977, for example, when it successfully defended the right of the National Socialist Party of America—a group of neo-Nazis—to demonstrate in one of Chicago’s Jewish neighborhoods filled with Holocaust survivors and their families.

THis is the headline I wait for as their issue de cause.
"ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters".

[Bear Paws]

He was right...google IS your friend...:)http://www.websmileys.com/sm/obscene/eck13.gif Hi Salsa.. :)

[Skyhi]

Protecting my rights my ass. These commies and their commie agenda took away my and my children's rights to free speech.. As a atheist I'm repulsed by the idea that my grand children may not be allowed to say “…one Nation, under God”.. or say a prayer for their team to win....in school and possibly in public some future day ....thanks to the ACLU ..
But if you think thats right than you and Sky must be ecstatic about their defense of NAMBLA.
This disgusting, vile organization NAMBLA is supported by the ACLU due to freedom of speech?

The ASCLU is just another liberal human-rights group that reliably defends the rights of liberal speakers and ignores most all consrvative speech issues unless it cuts a 2 way benifit.
The protection of free speech was the guiding principle of the aclu in 1977, for example, when it successfully defended the right of the National Socialist Party of America—a group of neo-Nazis—to demonstrate in one of Chicago’s Jewish neighborhoods filled with Holocaust survivors and their families.

THis is the headline I wait for as their issue de cause.
"ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters".

Freedom isn't free. Even people with repulsive ideas need to be allowed to speak freely.

Kids are allowed to pray in school.

Arson isn't a right.

[Bear Paws]

[QUOTE]Freedom isn't free. Even people with repulsive ideas need to be allowed to speak freely. "Freedom isn't free"...Really!!!!!???? What socialist anti-war protester hippie professor taught you that gem?? I guess the version I learned in the jungles of SE Asia from the Vietnamese and from the Hungarians freedom fighters and Russian dissidents just doesn't seem to have the same impactful meaning as that coming from a lawyer.
Yeah.. repulsive ideas like School prayer and the "nation under god" in the pledge of allegiance. I hear they are going after the pledge its self now.. Maybe its not repulsive enough??


Kids are allowed to pray in school. Huh... http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/church-state/decisions.html


Arson isn't a right. It should be....its repulsive enough..

[Skyhi]

Like I said....kids are free to pray in school. The can even form Christian-prayer groups as an after-school activity and use school property.

Teachers and Administrators are not allowed to encourage or discourage prayer while acting in their official capacity....

I didn't have too many ex-hippie professors. In undergrad and graduate school I focused on Business and Taxation - - not exactly a mecca for anti-war protestors. You are stereotyping.

[Salsadancer7]

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/obscene/eck13.gif Hi Salsa.. :)

I see you have not changed a bit...."old" habits are hard to break....:free-happy-smileys-

[Derwin0]

Like I said....kids are free to pray in school. The can even form Christian-prayer groups as an after-school activity and use school property.
Yes they are, but no thanks to the ACLU who has sued schools for allowing prayer groups to use school property.
Or to sue states to stop allowing moments of silence, that would allow kids to pray or not pray.

[Bear Paws]

[QUOTE]Like I said....kids are free to pray in school. The can even form Christian-prayer groups as an after-school activity and use school property.

Teachers and Administrators are not allowed to encourage or discourage prayer while acting in their official capacity.... Other than requiring the schools provide the obligatory foot bath and a mat in a prayer room for Muslim children and a 'Halal' free lunch program (championed by the ACLU) are you saying a teacher can't set aside or grant a Christian (Muslim is exempt) student a few moments for prayer on school property because that would be encouraging prayer while acting in a official capacity? The student has to kind of "steal" the moment while no one is looking?


I didn't have too many ex-hippie professors. In undergrad and graduate school I focused on Business and Taxation - - not exactly a mecca for anti-war protestors. You are stereotyping. That's why there is still hope for you..Your only tainted (red) a little.. There is a old Bear Paws saying, "20 million liberal professors isn't a stereotype".
With all that great capitalistic conservative education what is it exactly you do ....what went wrong and why?
My last business lawyer was a liberal when I first took him on..30 years ago.. I kind of liked him for his fiscal conservatism in regard to business law and over looked his social faults for a while. Between my accountants and my partner we had him voting for Republicans in 5 years and listening to Rush by 1989. Of course he was getting older and that youthful ideology was fading with reality.

[Bear Paws]

Yes they are, but no thanks to the ACLU who has sued schools for allowing prayer groups to use school property.
Or to sue states to stop allowing moments of silence, that would allow kids to pray or not pray. That reminds me...
I almost forgot about that.. Most of you know I'm a 20 year recovering drunk atheist...
.. A few years ago one of the local towns nearby had to outlaw or disallow a AA group from meeting in a annex building because it was school property and as a group they (AA) prayed for wisdom and the lords prayer.... from fear of a threat by the ACLU thugs.. .AA avoids controversy as a tradition. . I didn't see the ACLU rushing to defend AA's rights to assemble and freely speak. Even though we are not a religious organization nor promote religion. We have only saved 50 million drunks lives world wide.. Who did the ACLU save from what?

[Bear Paws]

I see you have not changed a bit...."old" habits are hard to break....:free-happy-smileys- Its not a habit, Salsa.. Its who I am. And I wouldn't want to "break it" for the world..

[froggigger]

Hey Salsa! Welcome back. You missed a lot. I'm a liberal now.

[froggigger]

That's why there is still hope for you..Your only tainted (red) a little.. There is a old Bear Paws saying, "20 million liberal professors isn't a stereotype".
With all that great capitalistic conservative education what is it exactly you do ....what went wrong and why?
My last business lawyer was a liberal when I first took him on..30 years ago.. I kind of liked him for his fiscal conservatism in regard to business law and over looked his social faults for a while. Between my accountants and my partner we had him voting for Republicans in 5 years and listening to Rush by 1989. Of course he was getting older and that youthful ideology was fading with reality.

Just Skyhi's views on property rights show he has much potential. :thumbup:

[Bear Paws]

Hey Salsa! Welcome back. You missed a lot. I'm a liberal now. He also learned how to lie real good while you where fumbling around with trying to find your way back here.

[stevenl]

Protecting my rights my ass. These commies and their commie agenda took away my and my children's rights to free speech.. As a atheist I'm repulsed by the idea that my grand children may not be allowed to say “…one Nation, under God”.. or say a prayer for their team to win....in school and possibly in public some future day ....thanks to the ACLU ..
But if you think thats right than you and Sky must be ecstatic about their defense of NAMBLA.
This disgusting, vile organization NAMBLA is supported by the ACLU due to freedom of speech?

The ASCLU is just another liberal human-rights group that reliably defends the rights of liberal speakers and ignores most all consrvative speech issues unless it cuts a 2 way benifit.
The protection of free speech was the guiding principle of the aclu in 1977, for example, when it successfully defended the right of the National Socialist Party of America—a group of neo-Nazis—to demonstrate in one of Chicago’s Jewish neighborhoods filled with Holocaust survivors and their families.

THis is the headline I wait for as their issue de cause.
"ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters".

The ACLU will support your right to say "One Nation Under God" if you choose.. However they also protect your right not to have to say it if you choose.

Id love to hear when the ACLU said you cant pray before a game, or anytime you choose at school. they may say it cant be a sanctioned event. Like "Prayer Time" But if you want to bow your head before a game and pray by all means..

The ACLU does support NAMBLAS right to be around. So does the US constitution.

The ACLU defending the Nazis right to protets whats wrong with that? If they are US citizens they have every right to protest just like you and me. Just like the KKK has a right to protest or rally in the middle of Harlem if they choose..

Your problem with the ACLU is they dont pick and choose their battles based on some idealology instead they defend EVERYONE. Youd prefer they only defend the causes you support. Sorry bear, the whole point the 1st amendment is to protect speech we DISAGREE WITH.. Because obviously speech we agree with will not be in trouble.

[stevenl]

Freedom isn't free. Even people with repulsive ideas need to be allowed to speak freely.

Kids are allowed to pray in school.

Arson isn't a right.

Common sense is not so common I guess...

[msmith198025]

I do not agree with most of what the ACLU defends, and I think the are wrong on some things, some that have been linked here, but I have to agree.

They do defend the unpopular in many cases, and they get a bad name for that. However if your views were on the unpopular side, most would appreciate that. A new view for me, but for the most part it is true. Open mind for all if you want it for yourself.

[stevenl]

"Freedom isn't free"...Really!!!!!???? What socialist anti-war protester hippie professor taught you that gem?? I guess the version I learned in the jungles of SE Asia from the Vietnamese and from the Hungarians freedom fighters and Russian dissidents just doesn't seem to have the same impactful meaning as that coming from a lawyer.
Yeah.. repulsive ideas like School prayer and the "nation under god" in the pledge of allegiance. I hear they are going after the pledge its self now.. Maybe its not repulsive enough??

Huh... http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/church-state/decisions.html

. It should be....its repulsive enough..

Nation under god is it repulsive? Not to me.. But I do believe its a violation of the first amendment. For the State to require school students to say the pledge. I do also believe the Constitution has somthing about not requireing any oath to be a citizen or somthing..

Also reading your link The first 5 or so were dead on rulings. The school should not read the bible over the intercom, "Court finds forcing a child to participate in Bible reading and prayer unconstitutional." Yea no crap it is..

"Court holds that the state of Maryland can not require applicants for public office to swear that they believed in the existence of God. The court unanimously rules that a religious test violates the Establishment Clause."

Yea NO S%#$%!

[stevenl]

Other than requiring the schools provide the obligatory foot bath and a mat in a prayer room for Muslim children and a 'Halal' free lunch program (championed by the ACLU) are you saying a teacher can't set aside or grant a Christian (Muslim is exempt) student a few moments for prayer on school property because that would be encouraging prayer while acting in a official capacity? The student has to kind of "steal" the moment while no one is looking?

That's why there is still hope for you..Your only tainted (red) a little.. There is a old Bear Paws saying, "20 million liberal professors isn't a stereotype".
With all that great capitalistic conservative education what is it exactly you do ....what went wrong and why?
My last business lawyer was a liberal when I first took him on..30 years ago.. I kind of liked him for his fiscal conservatism in regard to business law and over looked his social faults for a while. Between my accountants and my partner we had him voting for Republicans in 5 years and listening to Rush by 1989. Of course he was getting older and that youthful ideology was fading with reality.

Huh? Which school is building prayer mats and foot baths for muslims?

Chrsitian kids do not have to "steal" a prayer time, by all means before they eat lunch pray, before they leave pray, heck they can pray whenever they want as long as it does not interfer with school activity. What Sky was saying was the TEACHER can not lead a prayer or encourage a kid to pray or not pray etc.

[stevenl]

That reminds me...
I almost forgot about that.. Most of you know I'm a 20 year recovering drunk atheist...
.. A few years ago one of the local towns nearby had to outlaw or disallow a AA group from meeting in a annex building because it was school property and as a group they (AA) prayed for wisdom and the lords prayer.... from fear of a threat by the ACLU thugs.. .AA avoids controversy as a tradition. . I didn't see the ACLU rushing to defend AA's rights to assemble and freely speak. Even though we are not a religious organization nor promote religion. We have only saved 50 million drunks lives world wide.. Who did the ACLU save from what?

A good lot of the schools around here on sundays are also churchs. The churchs rent the school auditorium for church on sundays. The ACLU here has no problem with it because the schools have agreed to do the same for any group who wishes to pay the fees for rental. My nieaces dance school rents out the auditorium of the highschool some nights around here.

[Skyhi]

Steven...you're quoting bear, but it looks like you're quoting me. I don't want to be associated with those ideas. :)

[Bear Paws]

Geez Steve.. I haven't seen that much writing from you in years.. Didn't realize the ACLU was so near and dear.:rolleyes:

Ok I'm not going to go back line by line.. Here is where I'll generalize some more. Lets say your in high school again and as a student you gather petition signatures from all the students in the grandstands at a school game agreeing that they would like to have a prayer during half time for the troops in Afghanistan. And you would like it led by the Principal..Does the home team win or lose? Opps.. I mean is that legal or not ..according to your buddies in the ACLU.

[Bear Paws]

Steven...you're quoting bear, but it looks like you're quoting me. I don't want to be associated with those ideas. :) Yeah I know. It might tarnish my image. :D

[Bear Paws]

A good lot of the schools around here on sundays are also churchs. The churchs rent the school auditorium for church on sundays. The ACLU here has no problem with it because the schools have agreed to do the same for any group who wishes to pay the fees for rental. My nieaces dance school rents out the auditorium of the highschool some nights around here. That's common around here also.. The problem apparently is that AA pays no rent. It never got tested.. The School board just threw the drunks out on the street because the ACLU thugs questioned the legality at a board meeting.

[msmith198025]

Steven...you're quoting bear, but it looks like you're quoting me. I don't want to be associated with those ideas. :)

Fixed it

[Salsadancer7]

Hey Salsa! Welcome back. You missed a lot. I'm a liberal now.

LMAO!! :free-happy-smileys-:free-happy-smileys-

[stevenl]

Geez Steve.. I haven't seen that much writing from you in years.. Didn't realize the ACLU was so near and dear.:rolleyes:

Ok I'm not going to go back line by line.. Here is where I'll generalize some more. Lets say your in high school again and as a student you gather petition signatures from all the students in the grandstands at a school game agreeing that they would like to have a prayer during half time for the troops in Afghanistan. And you would like it led by the Principal..Does the home team win or lose? Opps.. I mean is that legal or not ..according to your buddies in the ACLU.


The ACLU would probably be against it. A momment of silence however would not be a problem. The problem with that is the Principal leading the prayer.. Perhaps if a student took the mic during halftime and asked to do the same thing it maybe looked on differently..

Me personnaly though could care less either way.

My point is not that the ACLU always makes deceisions I agree with. I think they waste way to much money on minor things, however they do a great service for all of us.

[stevenl]

That's common around here also.. The problem apparently is that AA pays no rent. It never got tested.. The School board just threw the drunks out on the street because the ACLU thugs questioned the legality at a board meeting.

I can see the argument cant you? if the school is donateing, the building for free, then (we all know its not free) that means the state/local county is paying the bill for use of the building. Thus the rules are a bit different then if you are paying to rent the building.

[Derwin0]

The ACLU would probably be against it. A momment of silence however would not be a problem.
And yet the ACLU sued:

Virginia in Brown vs. Gilmore
Texas in Croft vs. governor of Texas
Alabama in Wallace vs. Jaffree
and probably some others, I know Georgia got sued over it's law

in order to get rid of the those states' Moment of Silence.

[stevenl]

And yet the ACLU sued:

Virginia in Brown vs. Gilmore
Texas in Croft vs. governor of Texas
Alabama in Wallace vs. Jaffree
and probably some others, I know Georgia got sued over it's law

in order to get rid of the those states' Moment of Silence.


Lets see the reason behind these.

1. V vs Gilmore


Brown v. Gilmore (2001-2002)
Issue Whether a Virginia statute that mandated that public schools must begin the school day with a minute that allowed students to meditate, pray or engage in any other silent activity violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.



The issue here is not the momment of silence as much as its being mandated that they do it.

2, Croft Vs Texas

Again the issue was the MANDATED "moment of silence"

http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload_file826_35579.pdf

3. Alabama vs JAffree


Mr. Jaffree's complaint further alleged that two of his children had been subjected to various acts of religious indoctrination, that the defendant teachers had led their classes in saying certain prayers in unison on a daily basis; that as a result of not participating in the prayers his minor children had been exposed to ostracism from their peer group classmates; and that Mr. Jaffree had repeatedly but unsuccessfully requested that the prayers be stopped.

The United States District Court for the Southern District of Alabama allowed the practice and found in favor of the defendants. The United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit reversed, holding the law unconstitutional. The Supreme Court ruled, 6-3, that the Alabama law violated constitutional principle. Notably, future Chief Justice William Rehnquist issued a dissenting opinion, arguing that the Court's Establishment Clause reasoning in the line of cases beginning with Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947) was flawed in as much as it was based on the writings of Thomas Jefferson, who was not the author of the Clause.


Clearly their is a problem with teachers leading prayer in classrooms..


So while the first two are a waste of time the last you posted clearly had merit. Also none of them would prevent Bears question of a "moment of silence for soldiers" from happening.

[Derwin0]

Having a moment of silence is pretty much ruined if the kids can all make noise. :rolleyes:

The kids don't have to pray, they can get a minute of sleep if they want.
Having the kids be quiet for a minute of so at the beginning of school is no different than requirement them to be quiet during lectures, tests, etc...

The Supreme Court pretty much agreed and has upheld mandatory moment of silences in schools.

[stevenl]

Like I said they were stupid and a waste of time arguments. But I just wanted to point out the reasons they took the side they did.