Decline of Christianity playing a role in what is going on?

[msmith198025]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/192583?GT1=43002

[cybok0]

Maybe more people are beginning to stop believing in myths and fairy tales.:rolleyes:

[stevenl]

Maybe more people are beginning to stop believing in myths and fairy tales.:rolleyes:

Thank god for that.

[msmith198025]

Thank god for that.

Why would you do that? I thought you did not believe;)

[cybok0]

Thank god for that.

No, thank common sense.:):026:

[Carl]

Maybe more people are beginning to stop believing in myths and fairy tales.:rolleyes:

I may be liberal but to say there is no God is crazy.

[cybok0]

I may be liberal but to say there is no God is crazy.

That is your right as a American to believe in whatever you want to believe in, just like it is my right.

[msmith198025]

That is your right as a American to believe in whatever you want to believe in, just like it is my right.

I agree. Personally, I am a Christian, but I respect Cy's right to not be.

[fallout2600]

That is your right as a American to believe in whatever you want to believe in, just like it is my right.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thum bup::thumbup:

[cybok0]

I may be liberal but to say there is no God is crazy.

I was raised a Catholic, I went through the whole process of confirmation, hell I have a second middle name now because of it.

But I started to wounder why do I have to believe in a being that no one has ever seen or heard from, plus I was thinking those stories in the bible could never happen.

Now I do believe in a higher power, but I believe it's the universe and the earth, not a being up in the clouds giving laws and deciding who dies and who doesn't.

[fallout2600]

For me, science trumps magic.

[dogbert]

Things have always been this way. Many people see a moral decline because they compare the way things are now to the way things were back when they were naive about the world.

[vurbano]

Maybe more people are beginning to stop believing in myths and fairy tales.:rolleyes:
And morals, right and wrong, rule of law, and etc. Oh yeah thats already happening thanks to you liberals.

[Paul Wozniak]

I was raised a Catholic, I went through the whole process of confirmation, hell I have a second middle name now because of it.

But I started to wounder why do I have to believe in a being that no one has ever seen or heard from, plus I was thinking those stories in the bible could never happen.

Now I do believe in a higher power, but I believe it's the universe and the earth, not a being up in the clouds giving laws and deciding who dies and who doesn't.

:thumbup:

[vurbano]

Now I do believe in a higher power, but I believe it's the universe and the earth, not a being up in the clouds giving laws and deciding who dies and who doesn't.And what controls them? witchcraft? magic? What is this higher power? Nature? you believe in nature? I do too, no debate from me that nature exists. But it isnt a higher power.

[cybok0]

And what controls them? witchcraft? magic? What is this higher power? Nature? you believe in nature? I do too, no debate from me that nature exists. But it isnt a higher power.

Nothing controls them, it's just there.

an agnostic is someone that would be willing to believe in any given religion, if significant proof were given. The agnostic does believe in a higher power, but until proven, does not choose a specific one god.

Now since proof can never be proven, there can't be a god.

[vurbano]

Nothing controls them, it's just there.

an agnostic is someone that would be willing to believe in any given religion, if significant proof were given. The agnostic does believe in a higher power, but until proven, does not choose a specific one god.

Now since proof can never be proven, there can't be a god.

so you believe in an unknown higher power? or you believe that the universe is the higher power? I disagree. The universe is just more space and planets and thats all it is.

[msmith198025]

Nothing controls them, it's just there.

an agnostic is someone that would be willing to believe in any given religion, if significant proof were given. The agnostic does believe in a higher power, but until proven, does not choose a specific one god.

Now since proof can never be proven, there can't be a god.

No offense Cy, but that does not make any sense.

How can someone believe in a "higher power" , but in the next statement say that no proof can be given so there is no god?

Do you mean two different things? Are a higher power and "god" two different things?

I just want clarification

[Nooblet the LEET]

76 percent is still a very solid majority for Christians. Maybe in another 50 years or so they might have to worry about their level of influence.

[msmith198025]

76 percent is still a very solid majority for Christians. Maybe in another 50 years or so they might have to worry about their level of influence.

Good point, however it is not about being in the majority, it is about the apparent erosion of morals (many of which are rooted in the Christian faith) that bothers me. People just do not seem to care anymore in many cases.

Of course I am not saying athiests can not have morals. Many do that I have met.

[Nooblet the LEET]

Good point, however it is not about being in the majority, it is about the apparent erosion of morals (many of which are rooted in the Christian faith) that bothers me. People just do not seem to care anymore in many cases.
Could you provide a few examples that bother you personally?


Of course I am not saying athiests can not have morals. Many do that I have met.
It's a common accusation. I just brush it off as an attempt to attack someones character.

[msmith198025]

Could you provide a few examples that bother you personally?


It's a common accusation. I just brush it off as an attempt to attack someones character.

I guess it is just the general attitude of the people I see in person, and on the news. Of course not all of it is moral and religion exclusively. Some of it is morals and religion as we relate it to the particular line of politics we follow. Different ideas for different people. I can deal with that. I just simply see the many things that are going wrong. The shootings for no reason that we can comprehend. Local issues, like home invasions, which NEVER happen here (very small mississippi town). Ect.

Morals should be there, even if there is no religion, and for many they are not.
Personally, I think that equates to a religious downturn in some cases, but again, not all.

[cybok0]

No offense Cy, but that does not make any sense.

How can someone believe in a "higher power" , but in the next statement say that no proof can be given so there is no god?

Do you mean two different things? Are a higher power and "god" two different things?

I just want clarification

The "higher power" is nature, the earth and the universe. I'm not saying they are standing on a cloud judging me. There is proof that they exists, right?

I believe in the big bang theory, which created the universe, I believe the earth made the planet what it is today and nature created life.

Now I'm not a Wicca person, even though they have a right to believe in it, but nature is a very powerful force.

There is no proof what so ever that god is anything, that fairytale book that people call the bible is just full of stories that people made up.

I understand you people will not either understand or believe what I'm talking about and that's fine.

I don't believe in miracles, there has never been a miracle that either isn't a scam, a lie or something that happens everyday.

[fallout2600]

I don't even believe the Big Bang, even though its the best theory we currently have. I look at it this way, we can't even completely understand the climate of Earth, how are we suppose to understand the origins of the universe? The Big Bang theory comes from mankind's understanding of nuclear power, just imagine what the creation theory will be once we master more science.

[vurbano]

The "higher power" is nature, the earth and the universe. I'm not saying they are standing on a cloud judging me. There is proof that they exists, right?

Earth and the universe exist. Nature is just a term we use to describe life and etc. You do not believe in any higher power but rather natural phenomenom..

[msmith198025]

Earth and the universe exist. Nature is just a term we use to describe life and etc. You do not believe in any higher power but rather natural phenomenom..

I think he just believes in what is as can be proven to him. I can accept and respect that, even though I do not see nature as a higher power. I know some do.

Perhaps he means science though.

[Nooblet the LEET]

I guess it is just the general attitude of the people I see in person, and on the news. Of course not all of it is moral and religion exclusively. Some of it is morals and religion as we relate it to the particular line of politics we follow. Different ideas for different people. I can deal with that. I just simply see the many things that are going wrong. The shootings for no reason that we can comprehend. Local issues, like home invasions, which NEVER happen here (very small mississippi town). Ect.

Morals should be there, even if there is no religion, and for many they are not.
Personally, I think that equates to a religious downturn in some cases, but again, not all.
Unfortunately I can't fact check personal anecdotes.

However statistically crime in the US has been on a downward trend since the early 90s.

Wikipedia states.


Crime in the United States has fluctuated considerably over the course of the last half-century, rising significantly in the late 1960s and 1970s, peaking in the 1980s and then decreasing considerably in the 1990s. Over the past thirty years, the crime rate rose throughout the 1980s, reached its peak in 1991 and then began to decrease throughout the 1990s and 2000s. Recent statistics indicate that crime could again be increasing. The year 2005 was overall the safest year in the past thirty years. The recent overall decrease has reflected upon all significant types of crime, with all violent and property crimes having decreased and reached an all-time low. The homicide rate in particular has decreased over 42% between its record high point in 1991 and 2005.

Graph image for violent US crime rates.
Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/US_Violent_Crime_Rate.jpg)

Graph image for property crime rate.
Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/33/US_Property_Crime_Rate.jpg)

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any studies on the asshole trend over time. ;)


I don't even believe the Big Bang, even though its the best theory we currently have. I look at it this way, we can't even completely understand the climate of Earth, how are we suppose to understand the origins of the universe? The Big Bang theory comes from mankind's understanding of nuclear power, just imagine what the creation theory will be once we master more science.
The theory of relativity doesn't predict weather patterns however it does work pretty well for predicting and testing models of the early universe.

[msmith198025]

No offense Noob, because that was a great post, but wiki generally does not constitute fact. Those numbers and facts may very well be true, but I could go into wiki and change them right now. You know?

Again, good response. It does not change my opinion, but it is interesting to read.

[Nooblet the LEET]

No offense Noob, because that was a great post, but wiki generally does not constitute fact. Those numbers and facts may very well be true, but I could go into wiki and change them right now. You know?

Again, good response. It does not change my opinion, but it is interesting to read.
Although it's true that Wiki can provide inaccurate information when articles are vandalized by users it is useful as a quick reference tool. In the future I'll try to provide secondary sources to any Wiki links I give.

Here's a couple of more sources demonstrating the current downward trend in national crime rates.

US Department of Justice (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict.htm)

Disastercenter (http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm)
The Disastercenter site is actually kinda neat since it shows recent earthquakes, fire and flood watches plus weather stuff.

[cybok0]

I think he just believes in what is as can be proven to him. I can accept and respect that, even though I do not see nature as a higher power. I know some do.

:thumbup:


Perhaps he means science though.

I'm not a Scientologist.