Obama and North Korea

[Madtown HD Junkie]

Is the President being to easy on N. Korea?

[msmith198025]

I voted yes, but I dont put the blame on where we are with them on him.

This should have been handled differently years ago. As it is now, Obama has a much tougher situation to deal with

[fallout2600]

I say no b/c we just got new sanctions passed against them. Other than hit NK militarily, which would be a disaster, I'm not sure what else the pres can do. We just need to keep them isolated and monitor their exports.

[msmith198025]

Sanctions are doing little however.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090618/D98T1AR00.html
More blustering by N.K.


North Korea may fire a long-range ballistic missile toward Hawaii in early July, a Japanese news report said Thursday, as Russia and China urged the regime to return to international disarmament talks on its rogue nuclear program.

The missile, believed to be a Taepodong-2 with a range of up to 4,000 miles (6,500 kilometers), would be launched from North Korea's Dongchang-ni site on the northwestern coast, said the Yomiuri daily, Japan's top-selling newspaper. It cited an analysis by the Japanese Defense Ministry and intelligence gathered by U.S. reconnaissance satellites.

[fallout2600]

What is the other option that Obama could take?

[HDRoberts]

What is the other option that Obama could take?

Exactly. How could he be "harder" on North Korea? War?

[msmith198025]

What is the other option that Obama could take?

Indirectly, I would pressure China to fix this, and they could. China alone has the power to stabilize this situation without war. And again, where we are now with them is not Obamas fault.

Don'T get me wrong, I do not want war with them, but as I stated in another thread, I can see it coming, sooner rather than later. I hope I am wrong

[HD MM]

The last thing this country needs is to start another war.

[msmith198025]

The last thing this country needs is to start another war.
I agree

[fallout2600]

Indirectly, I would pressure China to fix this, and they could. China alone has the power to stabilize this situation without war. And again, where we are now with them is not Obamas fault.

Don'T get me wrong, I do not want war with them, but as I stated in another thread, I can see it coming, sooner rather than later. I hope I am wrong

I think you are wrong on this one. Even our military is saying all this display of force is nothing more than just that.

[stevenl]

We need to send 2 air craft carrier battle groups to the region and shoot down any missile he fires. Then if he wants to throw down we blow them back to the stone age.

[msmith198025]

I think you are wrong on this one. Even our military is saying all this display of force is nothing more than just that.

It is possible, but the fact that they have, or will have very soon, the capability to strike worries me somewhat.

[Skyhi]

It is possible, but the fact that they have, or will have very soon, the capability to strike worries me somewhat.

This is going to be VERY unpopular, but:

The USA should not be demanding that other countries get rid of their nukes until we get rid of ours.

[msmith198025]

This is going to be VERY unpopular, but:

The USA should not be demanding that other countries get rid of their nukes until we get rid of ours.

That is a valid point, however I have a problem with it.
It can be argued that if we can do it, then why not them, sure.
However, one has to acknowledge the dangers that arise when certian groups have nukes with the ability to deliver them. They may not have our restraint (i know we are the only ones to have used them in war).

So, slippery slope.

[Skyhi]

That is a valid point, however I have a problem with it.
It can be argued that if we can do it, then why not them, sure.
However, one has to acknowledge the dangers that arise when certian groups have nukes with the ability to deliver them. They may not have our restraint (i know we are the only ones to have used them in war).

So, slippery slope.

I get your position and its a tough call. However, if you can "divorce" yourself from being a lifelong American citizen, look at recent history from an outsiders perspective.

How many civilians has the USA killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? How many civilians have been killed in foreign countries by Iran or North Korea? Maybe the world should try and take our nukes away.....

[msmith198025]

I get your position and its a tough call. However, if you can "divorce" yourself from being a lifelong American citizen, look at recent history from an outsiders perspective.

How many civilians has the USA killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? How many civilians have been killed in foreign countries by Iran or North Korea? Maybe the world should try and take our nukes away.....

I think it comes down to capability. We have the capability to wage wars in foriegn lands, they do not. Sad fact is that innocent people will get killed in war. I wish it were not so, but it is.
I do wholeheartedly believe that IF they had the capability to do so, they would not play by the same "rules" that we do, and it would be a different argument that you would be making here.

Good point though.

[fallout2600]

It is possible, but the fact that they have, or will have very soon, the capability to strike worries me somewhat.

Just think how much it worries Japan or SK...

[fallout2600]

This is going to be VERY unpopular, but:

The USA should not be demanding that other countries get rid of their nukes until we get rid of ours.

Unpopular, no, liberals love the idea....as does your president....

Do you really think MAD doesn't work? It held the Cold War in check. Imagine if another USSR rises up, what would we do without a nuclear arsenal?

[Skyhi]

Unpopular, no, liberals love the idea....as does your president....

My president? :) You mean our president.....

I'm not sure he loves the idea....I've heard the hypocrite say many times that he won't tolerate a nuclear Iran.


Do you really think MAD doesn't work? It held the Cold War in check. Imagine if another USSR rises up, what would we do without a nuclear arsenal?

I think MAD works and I'm not saying we should get rid of our nukes. I'm just pointing out our government's hypocrisy when it comes to nuclear weapons...

[fallout2600]

My president? :) You mean our president.....

I'm not sure he loves the idea....I've heard the hypocrite say many times that he won't tolerate a nuclear Iran.



I think MAD works and I'm not saying we should get rid of our nukes. I'm just pointing out our government's hypocrisy when it comes to nuclear weapons...

Gotcha'....and yes, you are correct, who know what the hell Obama truly believes. He seems to change his position on a daily basis...

[stevenl]

He changes his posiiton as the situation changes. Hes not a "stay the course" Kinda guy. Which is what we need and want in a president. Someone willing to change and adapt to the situation. Had Bush changed and adapted on Iraq years earlier it might be over by now.

[Skyhi]

He changes his posiiton as the situation changes. Hes not a "stay the course" Kinda guy. Which is what we need and want in a president. Someone willing to change and adapt to the situation. Had Bush changed and adapted on Iraq years earlier it might be over by now.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Changing strategy as the situation changes is a sign of intelligence.

[msmith198025]

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Changing strategy as the situation changes is a sign of intelligence.

Strategy ,yes. Position, no. At least not IMO.

[fallout2600]

Strategy ,yes. Position, no. At least not IMO.

I agree

[msmith198025]

We are tracking a ship of theirs
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/18/military-tracking-north-korean-ship-suspected-proliferating-weapons-material/


The apparent violation raises the question of how the United States and its allies will respond, particularly since the U.N. resolution does not have a lot of teeth to it.

The resolution would not allow the United States to board the ship forcibly. Rather, U.S. military would have to request permission to board -- a request North Korea is unlikely to grant.

This is a great example of why I say sanctions are more or less useless in this case,

[fallout2600]

Doesn't it just seem like sanctions encourage their bad behavior?

[msmith198025]

Doesn't it just seem like sanctions encourage their bad behavior?

Well, they do not stop them at least. I dont think they actually encourage them though.

[fallout2600]

Well, they do not stop them at least. I dont think they actually encourage them though.

Really, I think it encourages it a little bit. Take a look at other countries that have been sanctioned and look at how they treated their people as a result. We cut off the capital and those countries shrink and decay. How else are they suppose to act out? Begging for forgiveness? It just allows the dictator to become more powerful and justify military buildup to show the populace that they can take on the countries that are driving the sanctions...its an endless cycle. Can anyone name a country that changed after being sanctioned?

[stevenl]

Germany changed after WW1 because of sanctions.. That worked out well.

[msmith198025]

Can anyone name a country that changed after being sanctioned?
I think this proves both of our points.

[fallout2600]

I think this proves both of our points.

Yep, sure does!